Wednesday, November 1, 2017
Tuesday, October 31, 2017
Living Consanguinamorously - What About Roles?
This is sometimes asked as “Do they still see themselves as siblings (or parent/child, etc.)?” or various other questions.
A (Short): It depends. Every situation has some differences from others.
A (Long): One of the questions usually asked in the exclusive interviews featured on this blog is that very question. Consanguineous lovers are asked if they see each other primarily as lovers or as family or if those things are inseparable. Hopefully in any relationship, people see each other as people first and foremost.
Relationships come in many varieties.
There a reunion cases in which the individuals didn’t know about each other until they were well into adulthood, and there are relationships between family members who have always been close and always in each other’s life, and everything in between.
There are relatives who only occasionally have sex, casually hooking up with each other alone or in situations involving group sex or swinging, and there are relatives deeply in love in monogamous or polyfidelitous lifelong spousal romances, and there’s everything in between.
That there is such diversity in situations and diversity in individuals means that some are going to see each other more in their familial roles most of the time, and others who are going to see each other primarily as lovers most of the time, and some who drift back and forth, and some who tend to see each other as both most of the time. If a couple has lost the rest of their family (or never had any others) or has moved to where people don’t know of their relation in order to live openly as a couple, they familial roles may be significantly reduced, but out of practicality and being free of the expectations of others.
People who are consanguinamorous in their orientation and in a sexually active relationship are going to tend to see both at the same time, as in “This is my brother and my lover” or “This is my mother and my lover”, etc. Conversely, people who are primarily in a “family-with-benefits” situation may only focus on the lover role at the appointed times or in a designated room of the home.
Something many people in consanguinamorous relationships experience is something described as “double love” or a “double bond.” One is not replaced by the other, but rather added to. They love each other as family and as partners, and the combination is very powerful. Contrary to the Discredited Argument that consanguinamory will ruin a family relationship, it can actually improve them significantly.
Some ethical nonmonogamists (and even some monogamists have picked up on it) point out that people can “design their own relationships.” Rather than letting other people or the culture at large tell them how they should live out their relationships, they have found that they can best be happy and functional mutually negotiating what is best for them. This can refer to everything from sex to sleeping arrangements to living together or not to when they will share meals, what activities they will do together as a couple, what they will do with others, on and on it goes. Likewise, consanguinamorists can decide what their boundaries and how their roles will be lived out.
If you have experience with consanguinamory, what have been your thoughts, feelings, and agreements on this? Comment below. You can do so anonymously.
Happy Halloween
Do you have any special plans for Halloween? Have you done or will you do anything fun or interesting this year at a Halloween party or event?
Here in the states, the stores depend on Halloween to sell a lot of merchandise. There are parties, costume contests, what amounts to theatre in front of (and inside, sometimes) the homes of people as they try to scare or entertain neighbors and strangers with things ranging from silly to sexy, spooky to gory. In some places, kids (and often parents) in costumes go from door to door collecting candy or other treats.
Many amusement parks, ranging from small to the largest, do special entertainment in the weeks leading up to Halloween, and this is a favorite time of the year for movie studios to release horror movies, and for broadcasters to show ones from years past.
For some, there are religious or spiritual aspects to the day, and it might be called by other names.
Some interesting things can happen when people are having fun at costume parties, or cuddled up together watching scary movies.
So, as always, feel free to comment or share your stories.
Monday, October 30, 2017
How Consanguineous Lovers Can Avoid Trouble
Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex between adults, and there are still police officers who will investigate people for this "crime," still prosecutors who will take the case before a court, and still judges and jurors who will convict people and sentence them to prison. There are still social workers who will take children away from good parents because those parents love other adults.
It doesn't matter to them how loving the relationships are. It doesn't matter if they love each other more than they could love others, it doesn't matter if the lovers didn't even meet each other until they were adults. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.
In addition to this persecution of consanguinamorous people, there aren't any protections against other forms of discrimination against the consanguinamorous, such as employment discrimination. There are still many states that don't have protections for LGBT people, either, and polyamorous people are even less protected than monogamous LGBT people.
I sometimes forget that people don’t follow the news and law as closely as I do for this blog, so they may be unaware of these things. So I want to share with you what I've learned.
First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:
The focus of this blog is consenting adults. This blog does not advocate anyone engage in activity that is currently illegal in their jurisdiction; it does advocate changing or repealing any law that prevents the freedom of association, love, and full marriage equality for adults. This blog condemns rape, sexual assault, and child molestation, and does not provide medical, therapeutic, legal, financial, or cooking advice. This blog links to other sites for informational purposes; it does not necessarily support everything at those links.OK, with that out of the way, I'll continue as a friend.
The vast majority of people who have consensual sex with a close relative never get "caught." 10-15% of people in their early 20s will confide in surveys to having had consensual sexual contact with a sibling. The percentages rise in older age groups. That's just the people who will confide in the surveys, and doesn't include being with aunts, uncles, parents, etc.. The percentages increase in older age groups because there are more opportunities over the years. Many of those situations involve a moment or a fling or something that just lasts for season, but in other cases they are long-term romances and lifelong spousal relationships.
I hear from people terrified of being prosecuted or losing their children because those adults are with consenting adults and some person with authority doesn't approve.
While most never get prosecuted, the threat is always there in so many places, and I regularly find news reports of such prosecutions. When people do get caught and publicly persecuted and, often, prosecuted, in almost every case, the lovers were outed and handed over to ax-grinding prosecutors due to one or more of a few factors (presented in no particular order):
1) Self-incrimination.
2) Being ratted out by a claimed witness.
3) Testing and reporting of a child's DNA.
4) Being caught in the act by law enforcement.
In other words, it isn’t like the police come door to door, scan crowds in public, or are doing stakeouts to catch consanguineous lovers breaking laws against consensual incest. That's the good news. But let's take a closer look at the bad news.
Self-incrimination. One of the problems is that people either "confess" or tell law enforcement way too much that they don't have to. One or more of them admit the relationship, often not aware it is (still, stupidly) illegal where they are, wrongly thinking if they explain it was consensual then of course the police will leave them alone. For a real-life example of this, see this posting. Law enforcement may also get a hold of some media (love letters, homemade videos) that documents the sexual aspect of the relationship. That's right... doing something so many other lovers do freely can be used against these consensual relationships.
Ratted out. Someone outside of the relationship, whether a nosy neighbor, a malicious ex, a jealous or envious family member, even a professional/academic/social rival sees something, hears something, or just gets a hunch based on how the lovers are smitten with each other and they contact the authorities. See this example.
Child. If someone dares to exercise their reproductive rights and have a child together, the DNA of that child is proof of parentage. Contrary to popular myths, most children born to close relatives are healthy and do not look any different than any other child. Many of the ones I've seen are beautiful children. But, if the child's DNA is tested and the results showing the parents are consanguineous reported to the authorities, depending on the circumstances it may be used as evidence against the lovers. See this example.
I hear from people terrified of being prosecuted or losing their children because those adults are with consenting adults and some person with authority doesn't approve.
While most never get prosecuted, the threat is always there in so many places, and I regularly find news reports of such prosecutions. When people do get caught and publicly persecuted and, often, prosecuted, in almost every case, the lovers were outed and handed over to ax-grinding prosecutors due to one or more of a few factors (presented in no particular order):
1) Self-incrimination.
2) Being ratted out by a claimed witness.
3) Testing and reporting of a child's DNA.
4) Being caught in the act by law enforcement.
In other words, it isn’t like the police come door to door, scan crowds in public, or are doing stakeouts to catch consanguineous lovers breaking laws against consensual incest. That's the good news. But let's take a closer look at the bad news.
Self-incrimination. One of the problems is that people either "confess" or tell law enforcement way too much that they don't have to. One or more of them admit the relationship, often not aware it is (still, stupidly) illegal where they are, wrongly thinking if they explain it was consensual then of course the police will leave them alone. For a real-life example of this, see this posting. Law enforcement may also get a hold of some media (love letters, homemade videos) that documents the sexual aspect of the relationship. That's right... doing something so many other lovers do freely can be used against these consensual relationships.
Ratted out. Someone outside of the relationship, whether a nosy neighbor, a malicious ex, a jealous or envious family member, even a professional/academic/social rival sees something, hears something, or just gets a hunch based on how the lovers are smitten with each other and they contact the authorities. See this example.
Child. If someone dares to exercise their reproductive rights and have a child together, the DNA of that child is proof of parentage. Contrary to popular myths, most children born to close relatives are healthy and do not look any different than any other child. Many of the ones I've seen are beautiful children. But, if the child's DNA is tested and the results showing the parents are consanguineous reported to the authorities, depending on the circumstances it may be used as evidence against the lovers. See this example.
Caught in public. Many, many people have had sex in "public" places, usually without getting caught. Depending on the circumstances, police might send the lovers on their way. But, if in checking identification and asking questions, the police determine that the lovers are closely related (see "self-incrimination" above), they might arrest the lovers even when they would have otherwise let them go. See this example.
So what can those who enjoy consanguinamory do to protect themselves? Any of these steps might help.
1) Consult a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. A criminal defense or family law attorney might be someone well worth consulting. (If you are an attorney willing to help, please contact us as we'd like to develop a private list of friendly legal counsel.)
2) Move to more enlightened states or countries. Moving also may get you away from those who are aware of your biological relation and would oppose your relationship. The best states in the US are Rhode Island and New Jersey. Perhaps the worst state is Texas, which technically criminalizes sex between first cousins (as do a few others).
3) Be careful who you tell and what you tell them. In the US, we have a Constitutional right against self-incrimination (see 5th Amendment) and the right to remain silent when arrested by law enforcement. It's a good idea when dealing with police to give them polite, brief "yes" or "no" or "I don't know" or "I don't remember" answers unless even one of those could incriminate you. In the US, you also have the right to an attorney and it is a good idea speak up and ask for a lawyer if you're held or taken in by police. Also in the US, unless there is imminent danger to someone, you don't have the let police into your home without a search warrant, and even search warrants can have limits. YOU may think something is obvious and gives you away, the police may even have figured it out, but staying silent about it can still protect you. Please see this about talking with the police.
4) Be careful what you document. Many lovers enjoy taking video or pictures of themselves having fun with each other, but for the consanguinamorous, such media, if it falls into the wrong hands, can be trouble.
5) Have a cover story. Anticipate questions, whether from those who know you or those who don't who might not approve. There's nothing unusual or unconventional about family members living together, going places together, or frequently visiting each other. In extreme situations, consanguineous lovers might want to take on "beards," meaning pretending to have a relationship with (even marrying) others to direct attention away from their "forbidden" relationship. If someone does this, it is better not to deceive the beard(s) but rather have an agreement with someone who is fully informed. An example of an ideal situation along these lines would be if two siblings from one family married two siblings from another family. Such marriages have always gone on and were even popular in some places in the past, whether as real marriages or as beard situations.
Lovers may want to discuss The Red Button as an option, in case law enforcement ever takes an interest in the relationship.
Lovers may want to discuss The Red Button as an option, in case law enforcement ever takes an interest in the relationship.
6) Know your risk in having biological children together. Many consanguineous lovers opt not to take the risk, either for genetic reasons or legal reasons (or, like other people, because they just plain preferred not to have children). In some places, a credible defense if DNA proves a child was born to close relatives is to claim that the child was conceived through using a turkey baster or condom or sex toy that resulted in artificial insemination (the claim would be that the male ejaculated onto or into the object, which was then inserted into the female). In such places, it is the actual sex act that is criminal, not having genetic children together.
7) Stick to private places and lock the door when you get to the fun.
For more, see this by Cristina on dealing with authorities in the US and Jane's blog entry on dealing with the authorities in the UK.
Note that most ethicists say it is OK to lie to authorities who are trying to enforce unjust laws or polices. An extreme example is a Nazi SS officer asking you, "Are you hiding any Jews here?" It was ethical to say "No." Well, I think that applies here, too, though the situation is not as extreme. It is nobody else's business if adults are having consensual sex.
This advice shouldn't even be necessary, but until we get to the point where we have relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality, consanguinamorous people should think about protecting themselves. Of course, some level of trouble is necessary to make change. Laws need to be overturned in courts or changed by legislatures, but it is up to each set of lovers to decide for themselves if they want to come out of the closet to push for those things. I have seen at least two couples come out publicly on Facebook, which resulted, in at least one of the cases, them being given trouble by some of the people who were supposed to be their friends. But the more other people realize that consanguinamory is a reality all around them, the sooner the persecution will be greatly reduced.
Police officers usually have some wiggle-room when it comes to investigating or arresting people can can look the other way if they choose. Prosecutors can choose not to prosecute. Judges can dismiss cases. Juries can refuse to convict (research jury nullification). So I beg these people to let consenting adults love each other without harassment, without prosecution.
Do you have any suggestions? Any tales to tell about what you've done to protect yourself, or being caught, or catching someone? What do you think, dear reader? Leave a comment or email me.
Sunday, October 29, 2017
NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #1
“It is disgusting.” Also known as the “ick” or “eww” factor, this explains why the person using the argument would not want to enter into the type of relationship or marriage or have the kind sex they want banned, but their own personal disgust is not a justification for preventing other people from doing something those other people want to do. Don’t want to have an (adult) intergenerational or interracial or same-gender or polyamorous or consanguineous marriage? Don’t have one. Some people are disgusted by the idea of heterosexual sex, or their parents having sex, but obviously this is not a justification to ban those things. Some people find prejudice and bigotry, a lack of marriage equality, disgusting. Meanwhile, the people in these relationships aren’t disgusted. How they love each other should be be up to them.
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://ift.tt/1K0B6Zj
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #2
Saturday, October 28, 2017
Sibling Rivalry or Sibling Revelry
I used to be active on a certain Big Online Portal's question-and-answer feature, answering questions related to full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults, and occasionally questions about teenager sexuality. I still read what goes on there. Every once in a while, someone will ask a question like this...
Also, we don't know where they live, and thus whether or not they live somewhere where it is legal for a 17-year-old and 16-year-old to have sex with each other.
Most therapists consider such sibling behavior, absent any coercion, force, or intimidation, to be mutual experimentation or exploration.
In general, however, my advice to someone in the asker's position is to:
1. Confirm this is a voluntary activity. If observing wasn't enough, ask the younger/smaller/less assertive/more needy sibling if they are being pressured, intimidated, coerced, or forced in any way.
2. Respect their privacy. Start by reminding them it's a good idea to be discreet and promise you will knock.
3. Protect and support them.
4. If needed, assist them in accessing contraception and health care.
(See this extensive advice at The Final Manifesto for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings.)
Walking in on anyone "making out" with someone else can be unsettling, especially if you're uptight about your own sexuality. Walking in your sibling in such a situation can be more so. Walking in on your sibling doing something to which you have a personal aversion (in this case, making out with a sibling, but in other cases it might be group sex, or gay sex, etc.) can be all the more so. But just because you might not want to do something doesn't mean someone else shouldn't or is mentally ill for enjoying that activity or enjoying that other person in that way. There may also be some feelings of jealousy and sibling rivalry prompting some negative reaction.
As far as there being so many other people they could be with: that will always be the case with any relationship. There is always "someone else" any given person could be with, but that is no reason these two teenagers shouldn't be together in the way they want. They love, trust, and enjoy each other, and have something they would be unlikely to find in others. This is what is working for them. Trying to force them apart would only cause problems. They will either stop on their own, moving on to other lovers, or they won't, and will have to deal with the prejudices that exist against such love.
The advice for parents who walk in on such a situation is a little different if the parents are legally responsible for the lovers, and I tend to subscribe to "your house, your rules" to a certain extent.
Brandy likes to answer questions like these...
Aurélie also answered, giving her personal experience with the subject...
People in consanguinamorous relationships like the one described in the question can find some support.
Also see:
Jane's Doe's Blog Entry to Parents of Consanguinamorous Children
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Can Siblings Marry?
This entry addresses questions like Why would brothers and sisters have sex? Why would siblings have sex? I caught my siblings or brother and sister having sex; what should I do? I caught my brothers having sex. I caught my sisters having sex. Do siblings have sex?
I caught my siblings making out, what should i do?
I caught my 16 year old sister and 17 year old brother making out, I don't really know what to do. To be honest I'm very shocked, and a bit disoriented thinking about it. They're both pretty attractive, I don't see why they would shack up with each other when they could go out and get people who... aren't related to them.For all we know, the teens "making out" with each other are both half-siblings to the asker, and unrelated to each other, or they could be stepsiblings or adopted siblings. Or, they could be half or full-blood siblings to each other. (It might have even been a reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction situation if the siblings have not been raised together.) Whatever their genetic, legal, and social relation, it isn't uncommon for siblings as close in age as they are, especially in their teens, to have such affection between them.
I want to tell ma and pa, but they begged me not to, don't really know how to approach this situation, Or if I should just respect their privacy. I guess I'm just worried about their mental health, but I guess that's pretty unfair of me to assume something is wrong with them.
What do i do?
Also, we don't know where they live, and thus whether or not they live somewhere where it is legal for a 17-year-old and 16-year-old to have sex with each other.
Most therapists consider such sibling behavior, absent any coercion, force, or intimidation, to be mutual experimentation or exploration.
In general, however, my advice to someone in the asker's position is to:
1. Confirm this is a voluntary activity. If observing wasn't enough, ask the younger/smaller/less assertive/more needy sibling if they are being pressured, intimidated, coerced, or forced in any way.
2. Respect their privacy. Start by reminding them it's a good idea to be discreet and promise you will knock.
3. Protect and support them.
4. If needed, assist them in accessing contraception and health care.
(See this extensive advice at The Final Manifesto for friends and family of consanguinamorous siblings.)
Walking in on anyone "making out" with someone else can be unsettling, especially if you're uptight about your own sexuality. Walking in your sibling in such a situation can be more so. Walking in on your sibling doing something to which you have a personal aversion (in this case, making out with a sibling, but in other cases it might be group sex, or gay sex, etc.) can be all the more so. But just because you might not want to do something doesn't mean someone else shouldn't or is mentally ill for enjoying that activity or enjoying that other person in that way. There may also be some feelings of jealousy and sibling rivalry prompting some negative reaction.
As far as there being so many other people they could be with: that will always be the case with any relationship. There is always "someone else" any given person could be with, but that is no reason these two teenagers shouldn't be together in the way they want. They love, trust, and enjoy each other, and have something they would be unlikely to find in others. This is what is working for them. Trying to force them apart would only cause problems. They will either stop on their own, moving on to other lovers, or they won't, and will have to deal with the prejudices that exist against such love.
The advice for parents who walk in on such a situation is a little different if the parents are legally responsible for the lovers, and I tend to subscribe to "your house, your rules" to a certain extent.
Brandy likes to answer questions like these...
According to research I've seen, it's been estimated that between 25% to 50% of teenage guys would be gladly willing to engage in consensual sexual activities with their blood-related sisters if given the opportunity. Less than 1% of teenage females would be willing to do anything sexual with their brother, though. Your sister is simply in that smaller catagory. It doesn't mean that she's evil or twisted. As long as she hasn't been abused or molested, then she's probably emotionally healthy and mentally stable.Brandy then goes on a bit of a tangent.
Aurélie also answered, giving her personal experience with the subject...
Well Charlie, what people want to do with themselves and with each other is their own business. No one is being harmed or defrauded by their activities.Finding your siblings together in this way does not need to disrupt the home. This sort of thing has gone on for all of human history, in every culture, in rural families and urban families, poor families and rich families.
Personally, I think that siblings enjoying each other's bodies is not wrong (as long as it's consensual).
My twin brother and I have been enjoying special intimacy and sexual fun together for 3 years (we're 17 now). We don't have sex, but we have a fantastic time french kissing and cuddling together without any clothes on. Sharing orgasms by rubbing our "down there" parts together is by far the best.
If our parents found out, then we wouldn't deny it. We'd tell them that we love and respect each other. We don't lie to each other, and we don't cheat on each other. There isn't any drama or jealousy. We've never been naked with anyone else, so there aren't any STD's.
And I was the one who suggested that we start sharing our bodies and have some intimate fun together. It was completely my idea. At first my brother flatly refused to believe me. He couldn't believe that I was offering myself up to him on a silver platter, and he was certain that my request was a prank or a set-up, or that one of my friends was hiding somewhere and would burst out and start laughing at him. I finally gave up trying to verbally convince him, so I just stripped naked for him. That's when he said "Wow! OK! Great!"
Would people prefer that I instead had chosen a classmate from school or gotten a serious BF who would have screwed me and then immediately dumped me when I was 14? A guy who would have lied to me? A guy who would have boasted about screwing me to all of his friends? A guy who might have given me an STD? Assuming 2 BF's per year, then by now I might have been screwed by 6 different guys already, so ask all of those same questions again 5 more times.
Because my brother and I have shared something very special together (and continue to do so), today we're still virgins and yet we're both wonderfully sexually satisfied. So are the activities that I'm sharing with my brother really that horrible? Not in my opinion. We both really enjoy it, and we both treasure the fact that we genuinely care about each other. We don't ever feel the need to wear masks around each other. The sense of complete freedom is awesome beyond measure.
Siblings are better off being intimate, practicing on each other, and enjoying each other... instead of allowing themselves to be lied to and used by unrelated STD-infested players and gold-digging b*tches who wouldn't give a crap about their feelings.
People in consanguinamorous relationships like the one described in the question can find some support.
Also see:
Jane's Doe's Blog Entry to Parents of Consanguinamorous Children
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Can Siblings Marry?
This entry addresses questions like Why would brothers and sisters have sex? Why would siblings have sex? I caught my siblings or brother and sister having sex; what should I do? I caught my brothers having sex. I caught my sisters having sex. Do siblings have sex?
Wednesday, October 25, 2017
Genetic Sexual Attraction, Incest, and Consanguinamory
To act, or not to act, that is the question.
As always, I am talking about consensual sex, not molestation, assault, or rape.
Close relatives may experience mutual attraction as a result of Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA), Genetic Attraction, Familial Sexual Attraction, or some other experience or phenomenon. I’m addressing these together because they all involve close relatives. These things can lead to incest (consanguineous sex, or consanguinamory) in the form of sibling sex, parent-adult child sex, cousin sex, etc. It may also lead to marriage or spousal relationships. While all sexual activity related to these can be called consanguineous, reuniuon GSA-initiated consanguinamory is a special subset and it should be noted that opinions of those who have been in such relationships towards non-reunion consanguinamory range from support to indifference to uneasiness to condemnation.
Speaking of GSA, there is a split in the GSA community about whether to act or not (or to stop acting). Many people who have experienced GSA, prior to having the experience, had never considered the possibility of being attracted to a close relative and may have thought the idea disgusting, but they found themselves attracted to a close biological relative anyway. Those in the GSA community against acting or continuing to act have various motivations; a bad personal experience acting on GSA, a priority of obedience to laws (even if unjust), their personal sexual mores, and perhaps for some, intense emotion about something they never had or can no longer have. They may very well think they are sparing others pain by urging them not to act. But others say the pain for them was in delaying the reality that they had been reunited with someone who was now their true love.
I deal with common arguments against the rights to share love, sex, residence, and marriage on this page. But just because one should have the right to share these things with a relative doesn’t mean they should share these things in any given case. That is the point of why I am writing this.
ALL romantic or sexual relationships are emotionally risky. Most do not work out, or most of us would still be in our first one. As with any relationship, you should be the one making that decision for you, not anybody else. Don't let others decide for you. There are trade-offs and emotional risks in any relationship. With a possible consanguinamorous relationship, there are generally pros and cons, and with GSA, there is likely to be pain and struggle no matter what course is taken. Ultimately, each situation can have different factors than others, but there are some general considerations I will address.
If there is mutual attraction, and that is a big if, there are many things that should be considered before becoming more physically intimate. Notice that to one extent or another, these apply to relationships with nonrelatives as well.
First, the cautionary considerations…
1. Is this person right for you, right now? In this stage of your life, are you looking for a spouse? A partner? A roommate? A date? A dance partner? A friend-with-benefits? Is this person a good choice for that? (With a GSA situation, you may not know until you spend more time with them; some other times, you already know they aren’t. If you have been with this close relative all of your life, you should have a fairly good idea either way, which is one of the advantages of consanguinamory.) We’ve all known people, perhaps ourselves, who have been attracted to someone who is all wrong for us, or at least we were wrong for each other in that stage of our lives. Nobody should voluntarily subject themselves to a toxic person, relative or not, and some people aren't toxic, but they just aren't right for you because of personality differences, lifestyle differences, and wanting different things out of life. With parent-adult child GSA, there is sometimes (not always) a good reason why the child was kept away from the adult, or given away by the adult; sometimes in those cases, things have gotten better in the decades since. Whether or not a person is right for you may have to do whether you are just looking for recreation, a release, to express your love, or satisfy a curiosity.
2. Is it cheating? I am against cheating. I also generally support keeping a family together. This means that if one has existing vows to another that preclude entering into this new (or new level of) relationship, especially if there are children being raised in that home, I would urge against it. In a perfect world, everyone would talk it over and the addition would be accommodated, but I know this would be extremely unlikely in a relationship where closed monogamy is expected, or even in open or polyamorous relationships where someone doesn’t want to give up status as the primary.
Genetic Sexual Attraction presents a special situation as overwhelmingly powerful feelings flood a person, often suddenly and without warning. There still isn’t much awareness about GSA. Thus, you can have someone who would not otherwise violate their vows to another/others do that very thing. For example, there can be a woman happily married to a man in monogamous, closed marriage, and she would never have an affair with a coworker or neighbor or the brother with whom she was raised. But one day she finds out she has a slightly older half brother or one her age, and upon meeting, they have a powerful attraction and start to spend a lot of time together and engage in constant communication. Just their mere emotional bonding may be threatening to her husband; all the more so if the relationship becomes sexual. There is the possibility that if the husband remains, his wife may return to monogamy with him. But there is also the possibility that she will leave him for her half brother.
3. Are you willing to deal with the possible fallout? Emotional relationships will always have fallout, but with consanguinamory there can be legal, professional, familial, and social fallout. This blog supports the right of consenting adults to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, but the present reality is that consanguinamory is illegal in many places, and even if not illegal, not legally protected. It is also looked down upon by some who take it upon themselves to be concerned with the love lives of others. Thus, coming out or being outed may result in prosecution, discrimination, bullying, and jealousy on the part of others. These factors can be minimized through moving to a location where consanguineous sex is not illegal or not prosecuted, and/or where your biological connection is not known. Discretion can be absolutely essential. There are too many power-hungry people in legislatures and law enforcement (and it only takes a few) who want to interfere in the love and sex lives of others, and much hateful prejudice among others who will discriminate against and harass your family if they find out something like this.
4. Is there a possibility of a sexually transmitted infection?
5. If this is heterosexual, has fertility, the possibility of pregnancy, and contraception been discussed?
Now, for some encouragement…
6. There ARE people in lasting, happy, consanguinamorous relationships, some with the support of family and friends; there are people who had positive experiences with youthful experimentation or play.
7. Consanguineous sex, consanguinamory, and consanguineous marriages are not new things, nor are they rare. The fact is, these things have been going on for literally all of human history in various cultures and every level of society. From the rich to the poor, royalty to commoners, educated to ignorant, urban to rural, young to elderly, close family members have done everything from engaging in playful experimentation to forming lasting spousal relationships. Consanguineous sex is normal, natural, common, and can be enjoyable and beneficial.
8. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you’re right for each other, don’t deny yourselves, deny each other, or waste the lives of others by entangling them in an effort to avoid your true love. As a wise person who has been there puts it, “I ran from the one person who would have supported and loved me for who I am, not who he wanted me to be, or for what I could do for him and my children and I have paid the price for two decades.” Fortunately, there is a happy ending in that case.
9. It can be a wonderful experience or even a deep and abiding love. If the situation is just a matter of curiosity and exploration, who better to learn with? But if it is more than that, be assured that consanguineous lovers often report that consanguinamory is deep and powerful; that other relationships pale in comparison. It is a special bond that brings happiness, a caring partner, and security. Who cares for you more?
10. In instances of GSA, it can be positive compensation for something that was lost and can never be regained.
If there is love; mutual attraction, trust, and respect; compatibility in availability, goals, personalities, personal styles and habits (notice that these may take some time together to determine); and the above considerations have been made, don’t let anyone stop you.
You may want to go slowly.
Here is how to make it happen.
How to pull off living together.
Refer your family and friends to THIS page and anyone who wants to be an ally should read this.
You may want to check out:
Suppression Brings Ongoing Pain
Avoid Hurtful People
Hate Adds Pain to Genetic Sexual Attraction
You can also contact me through fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.
(Edited to correct errors and for clarification)
As always, I am talking about consensual sex, not molestation, assault, or rape.
Close relatives may experience mutual attraction as a result of Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA), Genetic Attraction, Familial Sexual Attraction, or some other experience or phenomenon. I’m addressing these together because they all involve close relatives. These things can lead to incest (consanguineous sex, or consanguinamory) in the form of sibling sex, parent-adult child sex, cousin sex, etc. It may also lead to marriage or spousal relationships. While all sexual activity related to these can be called consanguineous, reuniuon GSA-initiated consanguinamory is a special subset and it should be noted that opinions of those who have been in such relationships towards non-reunion consanguinamory range from support to indifference to uneasiness to condemnation.
Speaking of GSA, there is a split in the GSA community about whether to act or not (or to stop acting). Many people who have experienced GSA, prior to having the experience, had never considered the possibility of being attracted to a close relative and may have thought the idea disgusting, but they found themselves attracted to a close biological relative anyway. Those in the GSA community against acting or continuing to act have various motivations; a bad personal experience acting on GSA, a priority of obedience to laws (even if unjust), their personal sexual mores, and perhaps for some, intense emotion about something they never had or can no longer have. They may very well think they are sparing others pain by urging them not to act. But others say the pain for them was in delaying the reality that they had been reunited with someone who was now their true love.
I deal with common arguments against the rights to share love, sex, residence, and marriage on this page. But just because one should have the right to share these things with a relative doesn’t mean they should share these things in any given case. That is the point of why I am writing this.
ALL romantic or sexual relationships are emotionally risky. Most do not work out, or most of us would still be in our first one. As with any relationship, you should be the one making that decision for you, not anybody else. Don't let others decide for you. There are trade-offs and emotional risks in any relationship. With a possible consanguinamorous relationship, there are generally pros and cons, and with GSA, there is likely to be pain and struggle no matter what course is taken. Ultimately, each situation can have different factors than others, but there are some general considerations I will address.
If there is mutual attraction, and that is a big if, there are many things that should be considered before becoming more physically intimate. Notice that to one extent or another, these apply to relationships with nonrelatives as well.
First, the cautionary considerations…
1. Is this person right for you, right now? In this stage of your life, are you looking for a spouse? A partner? A roommate? A date? A dance partner? A friend-with-benefits? Is this person a good choice for that? (With a GSA situation, you may not know until you spend more time with them; some other times, you already know they aren’t. If you have been with this close relative all of your life, you should have a fairly good idea either way, which is one of the advantages of consanguinamory.) We’ve all known people, perhaps ourselves, who have been attracted to someone who is all wrong for us, or at least we were wrong for each other in that stage of our lives. Nobody should voluntarily subject themselves to a toxic person, relative or not, and some people aren't toxic, but they just aren't right for you because of personality differences, lifestyle differences, and wanting different things out of life. With parent-adult child GSA, there is sometimes (not always) a good reason why the child was kept away from the adult, or given away by the adult; sometimes in those cases, things have gotten better in the decades since. Whether or not a person is right for you may have to do whether you are just looking for recreation, a release, to express your love, or satisfy a curiosity.
2. Is it cheating? I am against cheating. I also generally support keeping a family together. This means that if one has existing vows to another that preclude entering into this new (or new level of) relationship, especially if there are children being raised in that home, I would urge against it. In a perfect world, everyone would talk it over and the addition would be accommodated, but I know this would be extremely unlikely in a relationship where closed monogamy is expected, or even in open or polyamorous relationships where someone doesn’t want to give up status as the primary.
Genetic Sexual Attraction presents a special situation as overwhelmingly powerful feelings flood a person, often suddenly and without warning. There still isn’t much awareness about GSA. Thus, you can have someone who would not otherwise violate their vows to another/others do that very thing. For example, there can be a woman happily married to a man in monogamous, closed marriage, and she would never have an affair with a coworker or neighbor or the brother with whom she was raised. But one day she finds out she has a slightly older half brother or one her age, and upon meeting, they have a powerful attraction and start to spend a lot of time together and engage in constant communication. Just their mere emotional bonding may be threatening to her husband; all the more so if the relationship becomes sexual. There is the possibility that if the husband remains, his wife may return to monogamy with him. But there is also the possibility that she will leave him for her half brother.
3. Are you willing to deal with the possible fallout? Emotional relationships will always have fallout, but with consanguinamory there can be legal, professional, familial, and social fallout. This blog supports the right of consenting adults to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, but the present reality is that consanguinamory is illegal in many places, and even if not illegal, not legally protected. It is also looked down upon by some who take it upon themselves to be concerned with the love lives of others. Thus, coming out or being outed may result in prosecution, discrimination, bullying, and jealousy on the part of others. These factors can be minimized through moving to a location where consanguineous sex is not illegal or not prosecuted, and/or where your biological connection is not known. Discretion can be absolutely essential. There are too many power-hungry people in legislatures and law enforcement (and it only takes a few) who want to interfere in the love and sex lives of others, and much hateful prejudice among others who will discriminate against and harass your family if they find out something like this.
4. Is there a possibility of a sexually transmitted infection?
5. If this is heterosexual, has fertility, the possibility of pregnancy, and contraception been discussed?
Now, for some encouragement…
6. There ARE people in lasting, happy, consanguinamorous relationships, some with the support of family and friends; there are people who had positive experiences with youthful experimentation or play.
7. Consanguineous sex, consanguinamory, and consanguineous marriages are not new things, nor are they rare. The fact is, these things have been going on for literally all of human history in various cultures and every level of society. From the rich to the poor, royalty to commoners, educated to ignorant, urban to rural, young to elderly, close family members have done everything from engaging in playful experimentation to forming lasting spousal relationships. Consanguineous sex is normal, natural, common, and can be enjoyable and beneficial.
8. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you’re right for each other, don’t deny yourselves, deny each other, or waste the lives of others by entangling them in an effort to avoid your true love. As a wise person who has been there puts it, “I ran from the one person who would have supported and loved me for who I am, not who he wanted me to be, or for what I could do for him and my children and I have paid the price for two decades.” Fortunately, there is a happy ending in that case.
9. It can be a wonderful experience or even a deep and abiding love. If the situation is just a matter of curiosity and exploration, who better to learn with? But if it is more than that, be assured that consanguineous lovers often report that consanguinamory is deep and powerful; that other relationships pale in comparison. It is a special bond that brings happiness, a caring partner, and security. Who cares for you more?
10. In instances of GSA, it can be positive compensation for something that was lost and can never be regained.
If there is love; mutual attraction, trust, and respect; compatibility in availability, goals, personalities, personal styles and habits (notice that these may take some time together to determine); and the above considerations have been made, don’t let anyone stop you.
You may want to go slowly.
Here is how to make it happen.
How to pull off living together.
Refer your family and friends to THIS page and anyone who wants to be an ally should read this.
You may want to check out:
Suppression Brings Ongoing Pain
Avoid Hurtful People
Hate Adds Pain to Genetic Sexual Attraction
You can also contact me through fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.
(Edited to correct errors and for clarification)
Tuesday, October 24, 2017
Still No Good Reason to Deny the Right to Marry
Unfortunately, Head throws ethical nonmonogamists who want to marry under the bus with this one...
Argument #2: Polygamy Will Follow If Same-Sex Marriage Is Legalized
Whether or not there's a connection between polygamy and homosexuality, there's been no proof of this since same-sex marriage was legalized in June 2015. Even if the concern had a rational basis and polygamy rates were to suddenly spike, there's a simple solution – propose a constitutional amendment banning polygamy.
What's the problem with letting an adult marry any and all consenting adults? That's called...
E-Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y
As we see, there is no good argument against full marriage equality. Let's stand up for the rights of ALL adults to have the relationships to which they mutually agree.
Sunday, October 22, 2017
Is Being Poly Genetic?
The Ferrett addresses, “Polyamory Genetic? Is Homosexuality Genetic?”
My thoughts on a genetic polyamory link are the exact same as my thoughts on a genetic homosexual link:
I don’t care.
Right! We have many things, including the technology I’m using to write this and you are using to read this, which are not part of our genetics. What difference does it make? See Discredited Argument #5.
Even if the gays were, as some suggest, all conspiring in one big plot to annoy us fine-thinking straight people, wincing as they sucked distasteful d--- and reluctantly chowed p---y out of some misplaced form of rebellion, it should still be allowed.
The truth is, gay sex is between consenting adults, and it hurts no one but those adults – there are way more deadly car accidents caused by beers than queers. You may consider gayness to be a bad choice, but two people should be free to make bad choices together. And what people want to do for fun in their private life is something that should be allowed, no matter how distasteful it may be to me.
Agreed. See Discredited Argument #1.
We often get caught up in the “nature vs. nurture” aspect of gay and transgender issues, forgetting that this is playing to the conservative bent. What’s important is that people all over the world should have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit assuming they’re not actively harming anyone, and as such Teh Gay Should Be Okay.
So is gay genetically disposed? I say probably, but it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference.
Getting to polyamory…
I’m sure there are tendencies genetically towards certain aspects that encourage polyamory, but polyamory is such a complex term, encompassing so many styles of relationships, that I don’t think a single set of genes could really cover it.
I think we have enough evidence that some people are not monogamous; it goes against their nature, whether being polyamorous can be found in their genes or not.
But it’s irrelevant. I’ve heard it said that after gay marriage gets settled, they’ll be coming after the polyamorous relationships next.
We can only hope. Actually, I’d like to see it all settled at the same time; full marriage equality.
Miranda commented…
For people questioning their identity, I can see how it would be helpful to know that this is what is natural for you. But do we have to use it to justify ourselves with the opposition? I’d rather not anyway.
Yes. It doesn’t matter if someone is turned off by something, or thinks it is harmful to the lovers. An adult should not need to get permission from some politician to be who she or he is and love the person(s) she or he does in the ways to which they mutually consent. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, persecution, and discrimination.
Is polyamory natural Is polyamory genetic Is being polyamorous natural Is being polyamorous genetic Is polygamy natural
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)