Jane Interviews Kelly

Our dear friend Jane has interviewed a woman named Kelly, who has quite the relationship with the people she loves most.



Read it here.

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Attention Graphic Artists Who Support Full Marriage Equality

It has been a while, so I am bumping up this call for contributions. Amateur or professional, if you're a graphic artist who supports the cause of this blog, would you be willing to make some clip art (illustrations, diagrams, symbols, etc.) for use here on this blog?

This is here to the right is something I did myself to be the logo of this blog. I'm not much of a graphic artist.

The primary use for the illustrations would be to go along with the various topics I blog about, such as with the clip art I've been using in some postings. The problem with clip art is there isn't a whole lot of it out there that communicates the idea of, say, polyandry, Genetic Sexual Attraction, consanguinamory, etc.

The clip art...

1. Must be provided to me for free. This blog is a labor of love. I do not make money from this blog, nor do I accept monetary donations. I will give you credit and a link per your request.

2. Doesn't need to be exclusive to this blog. You can use it elsewhere or let others use it. I intend to only use it for this blog, the associated Tumblr blog, and perhaps with Facebook and maybe some discussion forums in which I participate to advance the goals of this blog.

3. Doesn't need to be a large file, and can be simple. They can be literal (realistic or stylized), symbolic, or abstract.

4. Needs to be your original creation, or if you use something from someone else, it can't violate copyrights.

5. Send me as many or few as you want, but each one should should represent one of the terms found in this blog's glossary or... same-gender relationships, male-female relationships, allies and/or solidarity, breaking up homes, brother-brother, brother-sister, sister-sister, father-adult daughter, father-adult son, mother-adult son, mother-adult daughter, coming out of the closet, consanguinamory, Genetic Sexual Attraction, inequality, monogamy, open marriage/relationship, polyamory in general, polyamorous "V", polyamorous triangle, polygyny, polyandry, and science.

6. Will advance the cause of relationship rights for all consenting adults.

7. Can be emailed to me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

Thank you!

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Successful GSA Relationships

There is a split in the Genetic Sexual Attraction community, as I have noted before. I checked out a certain other site's posting with the same title as this entry. Below, I analyze what was written.

We often get this question- Are there any successful GSA relationships?

To answer the question... YES!

Are people in such relationships willing to do interviews that reveal their identities? Almost never.

Or the media will inquire about speaking with GSA couples living in the shadows of society afraid to announce they are actually reunited family members living as lovers.

I don't think many of those couples (or triads) are likely to keep in friendly contact with these negative naysayers. I know some who don't, and they ceased contact after they took over an established forum where people had long been contributing.

The more I work with the GSA community the more I hear about heartbreak and pain, because most often these relationships do not work.

Because that is that is who you attract! You take a negative attitude towards GSA and you offer sex-negative counseling for people who are having problems. What happy lovers are going to bother to come to you, especially if they have to pay money (leaving an clear, easily obtainable trail of evidence some ridiculous prosecutor could use) just to use your forum?

Most romantic/sexual relationships do not "work" if you mean by that "lasting for a lifetime and that lifetime not ending in the murder of one by the other." Most relationships break up, or most of us would still be in our first relationships. But there ARE lasting, happy, loving and very passionate relationships initiated through GSA.

Some have been able to maintain a romantic GSA relationship for a few months and even for a few years. However, these relationships frequently end.  And when they end the two reunited family members do not only loose their lover but they lose their family member.

What is this, middle school? As with other sexual relationships, some relationships started through GSA become nonsexual but are still warm, friendly, and loving.

Then they go on to narrow what they'd consider as "successful."

Is a successful GSA relationship when two reunited family members fall in love and embark on a romantic journey fighting against all the naysayers and making it work?  Or is a successful GSA relationship learning how to manage the feelings of GSA, not commit incest, and waiting for the feelings [to become nonsexual] to maintain a [nonsexual] healthy family relationship for life?

Why can't both of those be considered successful? They have set up a false dichotomy.

Is a favorable outcome in GSA one that involves; secrecy, lies, guilt, shame, anger, jealousy, hurt, pinning, depression, anxiety, and breaking establish marriages and families apart? Is a favorable outcome in GSA one that involves two family members living in secrecy constantly looking over their shoulders in fear someone will find out and report their relationship to the authorities?

These are the very same arguments that have been used against interracial relationships, same-gender relationships, interfaith relationships, on and on it goes. For many people, the only problem  other than little issues found in any relationship is the bigotry of others, sometimes included in laws. And sadly, these people are not helping that situation; they are making it worse. "Oh, it's the law. Women can't vote. Oh, it's the law. You have to give up your bus seat to that white man. Oh, it's the law. You can't buy contraception. Oh, it's the law. You can't love each other like that!"

So what about relationships in places where it is legal, and there's no "secrecy, lies, guilt, shame, anger, jealousy, hurt, pinning, depression, anxiety," or breaking families apart? Are they on record as being supportive of such relationships?

Choosing a path to commit incest with a reunited family member because of GSA does not lead to a favorable outcome as evidence continues to show these relationships do not work and it is illegal in almost all the States and countries.

Well, sure, if you ignore all of the evidence going against your bias, and again, those laws are discriminatory and should be dumped, just like other laws against consensual sex between adults. Consanguinamorous relationships are not rare.

A favorable outcome, a successful GSA relationship, is one that has respect, truth, kindness and joy not only between the two reunited family members but for the whole extended family system including spouses, children and other family members.

That's one ideal, sure, and that may include sex and even a spousal relationship. We can make that happen more often by eliminating or greatly reducing prejudices, including those expressed in law. Even if someone wants to avoid or stop a sexual connection, that is going to be easier to achieve without bigotry and ridiculous laws. The negativity makes things worse.

People frustrated in their own relationships might discourage others. People looking for widespread attention might suck up to the status quo in terms of popular prejudices. The fact is, though, that there are people who are in successful relationships that involve lovemaking that were initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction and there's no good reason to discourage or discriminate against these relationships, legally or otherwise.

I recommend this forum dealing specifically with Genetic Sexual Attraction. For consanguinamorous relationships in general, whether they've involved GSA or not, I know of no better place than Kindred Spirits forum (but be sure to immediate read AND follow all of the rules or you'll be kicked right off.) The host service of KS has been experiencing technical issues, unfortunately, but the forum is great. Both of these forums are FREE to you.

We CAN make things better for people experiencing GSA!

It is up to people to decide for themselves and with each other what course their relationship will take.

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Having problems with your teen and alcohol or other drugs? Three 'must-do's' that may help you get through ...

Hardly a week goes by without me receiving an email or a phone call from a parent who is having a problem dealing with their son or daughter and their alcohol or other drug use. Some of these mums and dads put on as brave a face as possible when they speak to me, while others are terribly distraught, some even breaking down in tears, desperate to find a solution to the problems they are facing with their child. This week I had four parents call me in just one day, all of whom were struggling with very different issues, but all telling me that they felt they really had no idea where to go to get help or advice.

Now I need to emphasise that I am not a trained counsellor or health professional, and I make sure I make that clear to anyone who calls me for advice in this area. I'm also not a parent so it is impossible for me to imagine what these people are going through. When I am approached by these people I see my role more as one of referral, trying to direct them to the correct services, agencies, as well as health professionals who may be able to assist them with their problem. There are usually three pieces of advice, however, that I do give them, three simple 'must-do's' that any parent struggling with a teen and their alcohol and other drug use can and should do to help them get through this extremely difficult time. They are as follows:

• Make sure you and your partner are okay before you do anything else. By the time these parents speak to me the vast majority are a complete mess! They have been struggling to deal with what has been going on in their home for some time and the whole family is suffering. Marriages are sometimes at breaking point and if there are other children (particularly younger siblings) they too can be terribly affected. Let's be clear here, if you're a mess then there is no way that you're going to be able to help your teen. Don't be afraid to get professional help - so many are afraid to do this, believing that it somehow means they have 'failed' as parents - nothing could be further from the truth. You can go to your GP and ask for a referral to a health professional who specialises in this area (yes, they do exist!) or if you feel comfortable speaking to counsellor at the school your child attends, they may also be able to assist. Whoever you speak to, you need to use the opportunity to talk through what you are going through and possibly even get some strategies on how to communicate with your son or daughter more effectively. It is vital however that this is all about you - it is not about fixing your child's problem - this is all about making sure you are ok! You can worry about your child's issue once this is done ...
• Before you react to anything, walk away and count to 10! Without doubt, every parent I speak to talks about the clashes they have with their teen and often the reason they took the step to contact me is that these are escalating. These clashes are usually due to the child not doing something that was expected of them or flagrantly breaking a rule and then the parent reacting. If you want one simple thing that will almost automatically reduce the suffering in the home it is never, ever react immediately. You're angry, they've been found out and their back is against the wall - it's not going to end well. I'm well aware that this simple strategy does not go towards solving the alcohol and other drug issue you have with your teen but it does make life more bearable! When something happens, walk away - count to 10, make a quick call to a friend and vent, scrawl out swear words on a piece of paper for a couple of minutes - and then come back to them and express your concerns. Once the old pattern of reacting straight away is broken, you have a better chance of dealing with the issue in a more positive way (and you'll feel less stressed!)
• Remember that you're the adult and they're the child - one of the lines I hear constantly from parents is "But they won't even meet me halfway ...". A key to good parenting in this area is the setting of clear boundaries and rules and making sure consequences are in place should they break those rules. That said, young people are still going to push against those boundaries and you will need to punish them accordingly - that's a normal parent-child relationship. Unfortunately, there are teens who are going to ignore rules altogether and no matter what you do, they're simply not going to tow the line. Now this is not the norm and if your child is acting out in a major way you may need to change the way you approach your relationship. Instead of keeping insisting that they at least meet you halfway, you may have to go 'over halfway', reach over and grab them and then pull them back! So much of this has to do with parents realizing that you're not going to have total control over their teen's behaviour, no matter what you do ... Now I'm not saying you do this the first time they do the wrong thing, but if you obviously have a problem and you fear losing them - you have to change tack! What I'm talking about here is essentially a change in attitude - no matter how mature they may think they are, you are dealing with an adolescent who doesn't have a fully developed brain. They aren't able to think through things rationally and everything is based on a 'gut reaction'. Remembering this when you are trying to talk to a difficult teen is not going to solve the problem but it may at least lower your frustration level.

If you do have a child who you believe is having issues with alcohol and other drugs you need to remember that you are not alone. You also need someone to talk to about it. If you have a family member or friend that you believe is appropriate - go for it - but in my experience, so often parents who go down this route end up feeling even more frustrated when the person they trusted ends up telling them not to worry and that 'it's just a stage they're going through'!

If you do need to talk through what is going on in your family and you want a non-judgemental ear to listen I advise parents to contact a wonderful organisation called Family Drug Support (FDS). FDS was formed in 1997 by Tony Trimingham who lost his son to a heroin overdose. It is a caring, non-religious and non-judgemental organisation primarily made up of volunteers who have experienced first-hand the trauma and chaos of having family members with drug issues. They have a Support Line for parents that operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week - 1300 368 186.

As already said, the most important thing parents need to do is to make sure they're ok before they do anything else. This can involve getting professional help or simply having a great family or friend support network around them when things get tough. Remember, you're no good to your child if you're not coping well - when you feel good (or at least better) you're going to be able to deal with this type of issue much more positively and effectively ...

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Myth: It is Illegal Everywhere to Act on GSA

Reality: No it isn't. It is not illegal everywhere to act on Genetic Sexual Attraction by having consanguineous sex or a consanguinamorous relationship. There are many countries where it isn't criminalized and a few states in the US with no or only some criminalization of adult relationships.

Where there still is criminalization of relationships between consenting adults, those unjust laws must go.

It is important to keep in mind that even where consanguinamory isn't criminalized, lovers are usually still unprotected from discrimination or bullying. Also, full marriage equality is needed in order for them to marry.

Lovers should protect themselves.

Friends and family should help protect and support them.

Let's make things better sooner rather than later.

See Myth: People Only Experience GSA Because They’d Heard About It or Knew of Their Relation

See Myth: Acting on GSA Needs to be Criminalized, Prosecuted, and Stopped

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Living Consanguinamorously - Keeping the Closet Door Closed

Someone came to this blog recently searching...

How my aunt and I can hide our incestuous relationship

The answer below will apply to consanguinamorous relationships of any composition, not just aunts and nephews or aunts and nieces.

Unfortunately, people have been compelled to stay closeted due to prejudice and bigotry, sometimes enshrined in law. Whether someone has had to hide or downplay their gender identity, their sexual orientation or their "forbidden" relationship, the oppression is harmful in many ways, but some people just can't come out of the closet, at least not at a specific time in their life. In some places, it is literally a matter of life and death. Even for places where consanguinamory isn't criminalized, many people in these relationships have good reasons to hide them from at least some of the people around them. As a result, many people don't realize they know people who are in consanguinamorous relationships.

In a perfect world, people would be able to simply love other adults without such problems, but we're not there yet. Civil rights, including things like full marriage equality, are generally advancing, at least on most of the planet, but there is still a ways to go.

Much of the answer raised by the question in the search was answered in an earlier entry about how consanguineous lovers can live together, so check that out.

There's also this entry on how consanguineous lovers can avoid trouble.

I'll try to avoid repeating too much of what is in those entries.

How you hide consanguinamory can depend on who you're with and whether or not this is a reunion situation or this person has pretty much always been in your life, and what your relationship looks like. For example, if your relationship is more of a family-with-benefits situation, hiding those "benefits" is going to be different than if it is more like a spousal relationship.

1) Move Away. As detailed in "living together" entry, moving away with your lover(s) to where people don't know of your relation is the most effective way of "hiding" the romantic or sexual side of your relationship. The good news for first cousins is that most US states don't criminalize their relationships and many states will legally marry them. People in consanguinamorous relationships have fewer options if they want to be safe from the possibility of prosecution. Whether you move away or not, though, some of these other considerations might help.

2) Move Out. If you're living with roommates other family members and you don't want those family members to know what's going on, move out, even if your not going to be moving away. If your roommates know this person is your relative, you can always find new roommates who don't know that, if you need to share a place. Who has keys to the place where you're getting together? Are you behind locked doors when you get affectionate in a way that would seem consanguinamorous?

3) Plausible Deniability. Relatives live together or spend time together for various reasons. Have one or more of those other reasons to be together. Obviously, living together is different than not living together and having dates or booty calls. If you're living together, you can say it is convenient or cost-effective to do so, or if one of you is big and strong and intimidating compared to the other(s) it can be claimed to be for security. If you're not living together, one of you can be said to be helping the other with something like home repairs or improvements, studies, or work. It might be worth your while to take up a hobby or interest together, or at least appear to do so. This is especially important for intergenerational relationships. If you're close in age, it's more likely to be believed if you simply claim to be good friends as well as relatives. It is important for you to agree on a cover story to answer otherwise revealing questions. This will be especially important if you end up having children together. See here for more about having children.

4) Keep Quiet. If you don't want Person B to know, then it might be a good idea not to tell Person A, even if you think Person A will be OK with it. If Person A knows Person B, and Person A knows what is going on, they might reveal it, even inadvertently, to Person B. Even if you think they've figured it out already, sometimes it is better to leave things unsaid. Even if they flat-out claim to know exactly what is going on, it can be better to stay silent or deny it, depending on what they are likely to do with the information. You might feel like telling everyone about your amazing relationship, but it's best to keep quiet.

5) Be Careful What You're Documenting. We live in an age in which personal communications are being hacked and "wire tapped," in which people have devices in their homes that are always listening to them, in which people are checking themselves into places on social media without even thinking about it, or allowing other to tag them and/or check them in. Microphones and cameras are everywhere. Who can track your automobile? Your phone or tablet? Who can log into them or your online accounts? Do you have your settings on social media so that people can't tag you or check you in somewhere without your permission? When you text or send a private message, you could be creating a record that others will see, or your might send your message to the wrong person. Be careful! There are messaging apps and email services that are more secure than others and that allow for things to be encrypted and to be erased after the message has been delivered. It's tempting to sext each other or take pics and video when you're lost in each other or missing each other, but you need to be careful. Technology is wonderful but there are certain risks that come along with using it.

6) Think Through What To Do if You're Caught or Otherwise Outed. Considering the likely ways your cover would be lifted can help you to improve your tactics to prevent being discovered in the first place. But sometimes, the best plans still go awry. Who is most likely to figure it our or catch you? How are they likely react? What can you say to them to discourage them from taking negative action? Can you answer their objections to your love? Always feel free to refer people to this blog to answer their questions, especially this page. Would you have to move? Some people take the extreme response of pushing the red button.

Whether you're in a relationship already or considering it because you realize you're in love with someone special or someone special is in love with you, being cautious can save you a lot of trouble.

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For Consanguinamorists Considering Parenting

At this blog's sister Tumblr, I was asked anonymously about the health children from consanguineous parents, why there is a taboo about this, and what advice I have for a mother and son having a baby.  My answers, which I'm cross-posting here, mostly apply to any consanguinamorous parents.

*****
Most children born to close relatives are healthy, though there are some increased risks, as there are when the mother is older.

This has been covered extensively here:

http://ift.tt/1EaqlTA

The taboo about pregnancies between close relatives is tied to the taboo about consanguinamory. First, many people expect that everyone should feel exactly as they do and they are repulsed by the thought of sex with their close relatives; secondly, they’ve been told it’s wrong and they’ve never actually thought it through; thirdly, as much as they may try to deny it, there are some people for whom it is a matter of envy or latent feelings of their own.

This has been covered extensively here:

http://ift.tt/1NsAY6P

My advice to a mother and son who want to have a baby, if they really want to raise a baby (which is a very big decision for anyone) is:

1) If you’re not already living where consanguinamory isn’t criminalized, consider moving to such a place. In the US, there are currently two states for parents and their adult children: Rhode Island and New Jersey:

http://ift.tt/1N9IK4a

2) Consult with a family law attorney. Don’t tell the attorney you have a sexual relationship. Rather, ask the family law attorney about the possibilities of both of you being legal parents to a child for the purposes of co-parenting. Ask about the possibilities when it comes to a child born of the mother (putting the son on the birth certificate immediately probably isn't allowed or advisable) and one that is adopted. If you can’t actually both be legal parents, there may be some paperwork that will create a situation where it is almost as though you are.|

3) Speaking of adoption: consider adoption. It may be that only one of you can legally adopt the child. If that’s the case, figure out who would be best to be the legal adoptive parent. While most children born to close relatives are healthy, with adoption, there may be more of a possibility to know what health issues a child has before you become their parent. But more importantly, a child conceived by both of you is considered strong evidence of consanguinamory, although in some places you can claim you used “in-home artificial insemination” to conceive the child (although laws are always changing and some criminalize that, too).

4) Get prenatal care for a high-risk pregnancy. In an ideal world, you could be completely open and honest about the child’s conception, but that might not be the case where you live due to certain mandatory reporting laws. However, the age of the mother alone is likely to make this a higher risk pregnancy.

On the flip side of this question is what can be done if someone is very late in their pregnancy, and they either don’t want to raise the child or their concerns about raising the child (self-incrimination, life situation, or general concerns about being able to parent) override their desire or willingness to raise the child. US states have various “safe surrender” or “safe haven” laws that allow the baby, if not abused, to be handed over anonymously to personnel at designated locations (such as hospitals, fire stations, etc.) Laws vary from state to state, including how long someone has to hand over the baby, so check here: http://ift.tt/21cOlw5 This would allow someone who has become concerned about their baby being used as evidence against them to avoid prosecution.


For more about living in a consanguinamorous relationship, check these links:

How to Pull Off Living With Your Consanguinamorous Partner(s):
http://ift.tt/2pVeR4r

What To Tell The Children:
http://ift.tt/2sq7qiX

How Consanguineous Lovers Can Protect Themselves:
http://ift.tt/1QgdOiC

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Falsely Invoking Science to Justify Bigotry

The "genetics argument" against consanguineous sex and marriage is usually a smokescreen that misuses science to justify bigotry.  There are some people sincerely concerned about children born to consanguineous parents (many of whom would have their concerns eased with a little education on the matter) but most of the people who use the "What about the children?" argument are simply trying to excuse their prejudice, because it sounds better than "I don't like the idea of it."

Ask someone who invokes Discredited Argument #18 if they drop opposition when it comes to a relationship that will not create biological children, such as two cisgender brothers, or a sister with a brother who has had a vasectomy, or siblings over the age of 60. Most will be stumped or will say no, they still oppose such relationships, perhaps citing another Discredited Argument, probably #1 or 3.

Another way of exposing this as a smokescreen is to ask them if they support the same restrictions on an unrelated heterosexual couple in which the woman is 40 years of age.

The fact is, we don't prevent people with known, serious genetic diseases, or who have lived all of their lives in the same neighborhood with pollutants known to cause birth defects, or who have taken medications known to cause birth defects from dating, having sex, marrying, having children, etc., so why deny rights to consanguineous lovers who are more likely to have healthy children together or won't be having children at all?

Everyone knows happy, healthy, intelligent, adorable children born to close relatives, whether they know it or not, and whether the children themselves know of their true biological ancestry or not. I can point to such people whose parents were close relatives. Should they have not been born?

Most children born to consanguineous parents are healthy. That's a fact. We don't hear about that much. Instead, "horror" stories are sensationalized... where a tyrannical patriarch or set of people isolated their family and abused children, engaging in deliberate inbreeding over generations. The problems resulting are often caused by the lack of prenatal care, lack of medical treatment, poor nutrition, physical abuse, substance abuse, poor hygiene, a polluted environment, etc. That's as far removed from what this blog is about (loving relationships between consenting adults) as possible. Cases like that do not justify denying consanguinamorous adults their right to be together in whatever way they want.

Bigotry and restrictions against consanguineous lovers predate a good understanding of genetics. It is just that people now misapply facts about genetics to cover for their dislike of the idea of consanguinamory.

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Myth: People Only Experience GSA Because They’d Heard About It or Knew of Their Relation

Reality: There have been people who’ve experienced Genetic Sexual Attraction who were unaware of their genetic relation and had never heard of GSA before.

Trying to blame people for experiencing GSA can be like trying to blame someone for where they were born. 

Sons and daughters had no control over being placed in the circumstances that resulted in reunion GSA. Siblings usually didn’t either, although there are a few situations in which an older sibling, especially a half sibling, chose to be away from their younger sibling during the critical years of childhood, but it’s not immoral to, for example, go away to college or relocate for work or pleasure. While it is nice for family to visit, an adult older sibling has no moral obligation to make sure they are around their parent’s youngest child enough to ensure GSA doesn’t happen.

Genetic parents are more likely to have some control over the circumstances, but they don’t always. Some of them don’t even know they have a genetic child “out there” until that child, now an adult, shows up on their doorstep or in their online inbox.

GSA is a normal, natural reaction to the circumstances.

See Myth: If Only They'd Known Ahead of Time, GSA Wouldn't Have Happened

See Myth: It is Illegal Everywhere to Act on GSA

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