"Take $100 out with you and stop drinking when you've spent that!" - a father's advice to his 16-year-old son around safer alcohol use!

No-one can tell a parent how to deal with the alcohol issue when it comes to their children. Your child is precious to you and only you can make decisions about how to handle the 'if they drink, when and how many' questions ... If you believe that providing alcohol to your child is appropriate and that, in doing so, you are keeping them safer and they are learning how to drink responsibly, that is your business and no-one else's. As I have said many times before, the only problem I have is when parents impose their values on others and invite other people's children to events where alcohol will either be provided, permitted or tolerated - thus putting those parents who do not feel comfortable with their teen drinking in a very difficult position. That is incredibly unfair. That said, I think there are some extremely well-meaning parents who are trying to do the right thing when they provide alcohol to their teen who simply have no idea about how much they are handing over ...

I recently visited a school and after my Year 12 presentation a number of young people came up to me wanting to ask me questions. I was finally left with two young men, who were obviously friends, both 17-years-old. One of them had already asked his question but stayed around to support his mate who wanted some advice - here is the general gist of his question:

"When I go out to a party and there is alcohol available I find it really difficult to stop at just one. If there is a carton of anything, I'll start with a can or a bottle and have every intention to stop after I've had that. I don't understand why, but I find that incredibly difficult to do - I keep going back and sometimes drink an entire carton, often making myself feel sick in the process. In my head, I want to stop - I know what will happen if I keep drinking - but I almost can't stop myself. What should I do?"

I asked him whether he drank during the week (he didn't), whether he thought about alcohol or drinking at any other time (he didn't) and a couple of other questions to try to determine whether he could be coming alcohol dependent but, to me, it sounded more likely to be a lack of self-control more than anything else (he was also one of those young people who simply didn't feel comfortable in a social situation without a drink in his hand) ... I then suggested a couple of tricks he could use to slow his drinking down and asked him if he had spoken to anyone else about this 'problem'. He then told me what his father had suggested to him when he had asked for advice - his answer blew me away!

"Dad said the best thing I could do was to make sure that I only had $100 in my pocket when I went out and to stop drinking when I spent that!"

Now I don't know what my face looked like but his mate's face was a picture! Before I could say anything (and I have to be honest, I didn't quite know what to say!), his mate blurted out "But that could be four bottles of vodka!" I'm sure that father had the best of intentions when he gave his son advice (and isn't it great that he went to his Dad for help with this?) but had he really thought it through and worked out how much alcohol he was actually recommending?

I wrote about this issue a couple of years ago when I discussed the bizarre phenomenon of parents hosting post-formal events who include on the invitation that those young people attending are able to bring up to four cans to drink at the event. As I said at the time ... "Do the parents hosting this event realize how much alcohol that actually is?" Even if each can (or bottle) was the equivalent of one standard drink (which it rarely is), that is still four standard drinks ... The Australian Guidelines to Reduce Health Risks from Drinking recommends that "for healthy men and women, drinking no more than four standard drinks on a single occasion reduces the risk of alcohol-related injury arising from that occasion" - and that's for adults! No number of drinks is recommended for those under 18-years, with the guidelines stating that "not drinking alcohol is the safest option."

Once again, I realize that 'not drinking alcohol' is not realistic for all young people, but this idea that four drinks is an appropriate (and safe) number for parents to provide to their teens is frightening. It is equally as concerning when you hear that there are people who believe that stopping drinking when you're spent $100 on alcohol is somehow promoting safer use!

When I discussed this last, I had recently surveyed some Year 10-12 students and asked them some simple questions about the last time they drank alcohol - e.g., who provided the alcohol, how much they provided, what type of alcohol was it, and how much they drank? The results clearly showed that amongst those parents who did provide alcohol to their teens, there appeared to be a poor understanding of how much they were providing and their teen was consuming, as well as the potential harm associated with such behaviour.

When you read some of the responses from the students, the sheer amount provided is staggering and clearly illustrates that some parents simply don't understand how much alcohol is in the can or bottle that they hand over to their child ...

• "My Dad gives me a 6-pack of beer to take with me. I've been given that since the end of Year 10. They don't want me to drink spirits like my mates." (Year 12 male)
• "I have three Smirnoff Double Blacks, sometimes 4 depending on what kind of party it is and whether my parents know the people who are hosting it." (Year 11 female)
• "Usually 4 bourbon and cola UDLs. My parents have said that if they catch me drinking straight spirits then that'll stop but they've been giving me this much since the end of Year 10." (Year 11 male)
• "Two Smirnoff Double Blacks. I told my Mum that all my friends drink vodka and that I think that's dangerous and I am able to better control my drinking with these drinks and not get into trouble." (Year 10 female)
• "Four beers and never anymore. Mum and Dad have said they don't want me to drink spirits and have said that beer is safer. Some weeks I start off with a couple of shots of vodka with my mates just to get the night going but that's about it." (Year 10 male)

Let's break down just how much alcohol some of these teens were actually being provided ...

• A 6-pack of beer is going to be around 8.2 standard drinks (full-strength - 1.2 per can), around 6 (mid-strength - 1 per can) and 4.2 standard drinks (light - around 0.7 per can). Of course this varies depending on brands (cans and bottles can vary slightly but not too much usually) but realistically that's a lot of alcohol
• The number of standard drinks in bourbon and cola UDL cans vary depending on whether they are the 'normal strength' or 'black label' variety. Four of these cans can amount to anywhere from 4.8 to 6 standard drinks for cheaper brands, up to 7.6 for the higher strength and more expensive ones
• Four Smirnoff Double Blacks (which continues to be the most popular drink amongst young women) results in them consuming 7.6 standard drinks – more than a third of a bottle of vodka!

I firmly believe that most parents who are providing their teens alcohol to take to parties and gatherings are doing so for what they believe are the 'right reasons'. I hear it all the time from parents I meet - "I give it to them because they're going to get it from somewhere and I'd much rather they get it from me - at least I know what they're drinking."

These are parents who truly love their kids - I don't for a minute think they are intentionally trying to put their kids into harm's way. In fact, I think it's just the opposite - they're trying to protect their child. I'm sure that was the case with the father I mentioned earlier - his son had approached him for help and he gave him the best advice he could ...

You can see from the student responses provided that a common theme was that their parents didn't want them to drink spirits. I think that is still the case - parents, for the most part, are very aware that groups of young people downing bottles of vodka, bourbon or rum is extremely risky. The theory, therefore, is providing them with beer or pre-mixed drinks could reduce the risk of them going down that path. Unfortunately, when they do this, they don't seem to have any idea as to how much alcohol they are actually providing their teens - at least, I hope that is the case. For, as I have said in the past, if there is any parent who truly believes that they're keeping their child safer by providing them with the equivalent of well over a third of a bottle of spirits to take to a party or gathering (because that's what a 6-pack of beer or 4 Smirnoff Double Blacks actually is) we really have a problem!   

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Why Men Choose Polyandry

Ruth asked at a Big Internet Portal's question-and-answer service...

Why do men choose polyandry(a woman with multiple husbands)?
What's the appeal? Is their jealousy? How does sex work? Is it akward knowing that the other husband has had sex with your wife?I'd like to understand how polyandrous relationships work, especially from mens point of view. Could you handle your wife having another husband?

Why do men choose a monogamous marriage? Why do men choose not to marry at all? Why do some men choose a polygynous marriage, or a group marriage? It’s going to be different for different people, but you can find some common reasons that pop up frequently. It is a combination of needs and wants, including social, emotional, financial, sexual, etc.

A man may choose polyandry because he is bisexual, or because he enjoys seeing his wife with another man, or because his wife has a higher libido than he does, or for reasons that are entirely nonsexual.

You can see the very good Best Answer if you keep reading.

I am married to a wonderful, challenging, sexy and creative woman. But, she has another lover, as well. That other lover, in this case, is a woman, too, and it's a fact that we all love each other, too.

This does not exactly equate to the question you asked, I know, but I think some of what I can tell you bears directly on your questions. Because make no mistake. Unlike the stereotypical FMF polygamous relationship, our relationship would be more accurately described as an MFF (or maybe FFM) polyamorous relationship. My wife has a husband and a wife, if you get my meaning, and the fact that her wife and I also love each other and sleep together (all three of us sleep together, that is) is incidental.

In my case, the appeal is that I love them both very much. But there are also some powerful benefits, and I'm sure those benefits would be true of a MFM relationship, as well.

1. Economic - We have our own home (which I built, myself, for the most part), and we have no mortgage. We have three incomes to fund our family.

2. We have three competent adults to help raise and nurture our children. Our three older kids have turned out to be remarkable, amazing and dedicated young people, and our two younger children seem to be headed the same way.

3. We are able to divide up the chores in terms of talent, temperment and time. Many hands make light work, as the saying goes.

4. We have three professional, intelligent minds to help solve problems, and to give differing persectives on answers to problems.

5. No matter how busy our schedules, there is almost always somebody around to lend a shoulder to cry on, or to snuggle with.

As to your other questions -

I'm not sure our relationship would work as well if we were not equal, loving partners. The fact that both of the Ladies involved are bisexual, and love each other as well as me is really the cement that bonds us. I am unsure how two heterosexual men would find the ability to bond, but I imagine it can happen.

Jealousy - well, in our case, there's not much opportunity, because we have one big bed, and we all sleep in it. But, early in our relationship, there might have been a twinge, now and again, when one of us would be at work and the other two could spend time together. We dealt with that problem head on, talking things through carefully, honestly and openly several times, and easing those primitive fears.

Why shouldn’t they be able to have their marriage recognized by law?

(This is an entry I bumped up because it is as timely as it was when it was originally posted.)

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NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #20

"It is sick! These relationships are dysfunctional!" This is almost always a thinly disguised variation of Discredited Arguments #1, #3, or #19. There are many mentally healthy people in healthy, functional, consanguinamorous relationships.

As this blog and others have repeatedly shown, there is no good reason to keep laws, discrimination, or stigmas against consanguinamory (consanguineous or consensual incest sex or relationships) that is consistently applied to other relationships. One of the grasping-at-straws assertions that one might make when all of their justifications for denying rights fails is "people who do that are sick" or "those relationships are dysfunctional."

Before we do anything else, let's make it clear that we're talking about consensual sex and relationships, not abuse. It's not fair to point to abuse, assault, child molestation, etc. by a close relative as an example of how "incest" is "sick".


Alleging psychological problems or mental illness is something best left to mental health professionals, such as a psychiatrist (a medical doctor) or a psychologist. The opinion of someone without such credentials and some experience should be suspect. So, if someone makes the claim that we should criminalize or otherwise discriminate against consanguinamory because the behavior is based on mental illness, they should be asked 1) for their credentials; 2) if they have personally conducted an evaluation of the individuals involved and the dynamics of their relationship, and; 3) if all relationships they personally think are based on mental illness should be likewise criminalized or discriminated against.

You can find mental health professionals who will declare consanguinamory to be a sickness. Throughout history, you could find such individuals or studies and reports saying women shouldn’t use vibrators, being gay is a mental illness, masturbation leads in to insanity, wanting to be with someone of a different race is a problem… on and on it goes. To this day you can find psychologists who’ll insist that being gay is a mental problem and that taking certain steps during a child’s development will prevent them from “becoming” gay.

There are mentally ill people who have these attractions. There are dysfunctional relationships that are consanguinamorous. BUT, having consanguinamorous feelings or relationships is not necessarily a sign of illness or dysfunction. Some people assert it is, but they do not back up that claim. At most, they restate their claim another way, asserting that everyone should either pursue (heterosexual, monogamous) relationships with someone outside the family and not closely related (how close is too close for their approval varies) or should remain alone and celibate.

There are many mentally healthy people with these feelings. There are many healthy, functional relationships that are consanguinamorous or have involved consanguineous sex. The people who are living proof of this, due to laws or other forms of bigoted discrimination, aren't eager to sit down with a mental health professional, or law enforcement and tell them all about it. Medical and mental health professionals tend to deal with people who are having problems. Most people in consanguinamorous relationships or who are attracted to close relatives or family members, who are healthy and happy, do not visit doctors and therapists and volunteer that information to them. That is one of the problems with studies or saying something like "I don't know any that are healthy..." These relationships are common enough that everyone does know someone who is, or has been, involved. Most of the time, we're don't know everything that's going on, because people feel the need to keep secrets.

It is normal for minors close in age to experiment with each other. Coercion is problematic, but if it is not a matter of coercion and no harm is perpetrated, we're not talking about sickness. Genetic Sexual Attraction is also a normal response to the circumstances. And sometimes, for completely normal and healthy reasons, close relatives who have always been in each others lives get involved as adults.

There are a few places where consanguineous sex and mental illness do connect...

1) If someone, due to mental illness, acts out sexually with just about anyone, that may include close relatives. But again, most people who are. or have been, consanguinamorous are not part of this category.

2) People who are otherwise mentally healthy, who experience persecution, discrimination, prosecution, etc. due to having a consanguinamorous relationship, they may experience problems such as depression, anxiety, etc. This is a common harm of bigotry, and anyone concerned that consaguinamory is "sick" should note that often, the biggest problems experienced by consanguinamorous people is prejudice. If someone is truly concerned about the well being of others, they shouldn't perpetuate this. Being told constantly that your NORMAL attractions and desires need to be repressed and should subject you to ridicule, ostracism, and even imprisonment can cause people mental problems. What kind of mental state would you be in if you were torn from the person you love most in the whole world, publicly ridiculed and subjected to imprisonment? Learn how to avoid being part of that problem here.

3) If someone has been abused, they may find comfort in the safety of sexual intimacy or release with a close relative, not wanting to take the risk of being vulnerable with someone they're not certain loves them. Again, most consanguinamory isn't a result of a situation like this.

Maybe you have known some messed up people, and those people have engaged in consanguineous sex. But they also fed their dog, were good employees, etc. Does that make dog-feeding and being a good employee sick? Yes, some people who are attracted to close relatives need professional help. Others don’t. Being attracted to a close relative, by itself, is not necessarily a problem.

I personally know people who are mentally healthy, intelligent, attractive, and have no problem attracting sexual or romantic interest from others, and yet, they are very attracted to a close relative. I can guarantee you know some people like that, too. You’re just unaware of their attractions.

If you want to know what science has to say on these issues, read through the science tag of this blog.

If you want to be part of the solution, you can! If you think you need help, see here.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.


Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://ift.tt/1K0B6Zj

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #19

This is the end of the series for now. Go to the start.

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The Dynamics of Cousin Relationships

Cousin relationships are on the edge of the issues addressed by this blog, facing somewhat less prejudice than relationships of closer relatives. Widely different laws from place to place and much ignorance and prejudice linger even as many places accept these relationships. In about half of US states, genetic first cousins (your parent's sibling's child is your first cousin) can legally marry. There are a few states with laws against consensual sex between first cousins, including North and South Dakota, Utah, Texas, Nevada, Kentucky, and Mississippi. The states that neither marry nor criminalize will generally allow first cousins to be together without marriage, as second-class citizens. There is much confusion and ignorance about these matters, so even people who are generally educated might not be aware that first cousins can legally marry, or might be unaware that people are actually thrown into prison for loving each other.

In the US, there is a false notion that marriages between first cousins in a Southern thing, but the varying state laws do not support that idea. Rather, these relationships exist in every region and in every class.



Cousins are often a child's first close friends. For some, cousins are actually or virtually raised as siblings; others grow up completely separated from their cousins, and may experience reunion-GSA as they meet or are reunited. Some cousins raised together, like some siblings raised together, might not experience the Westermarck Effect.

Childhood "playing house" or "playing doctor" might result in "show me yours and I'll show you mine" and might go no further than that, but in some cases, cousins experiment or satisfy curiosities or urges as teenagers. Some end up marrying and having lifelong, happy marriages.

Genetic first cousins share a set of grandparents. Theoretically, this means any children first cousins would have would have six great-grandparents instead of eight, but in practice, most people don't have meaningful interaction with more than one or two great-grandparents, if any, so chances are, the children won't be missing out on anything. Provided everyone gets along, it can be a big advantage for someone to have their niece become their daughter-in-law, or to have their aunt become their mother-in-law.

Those who perpetuate discrimination against these consanguineous relationships point to problems in some of the European monarchs, bit this is Discredited Argument #18. Many scientists and researchers support these relationships and there have been beneficial genetic results, while the risks are often overstated.

Everything from swinging or secret affairs has meant that people who've thought themselves to be cousins are actually half-siblings. An example would be John and Mary being married to each other, and Mary's sister Jane being married to Paul. John has a secret affair with Jane (his sister-in-law) and a child is conceived, but Paul is presumed to be the father and is on the child's birth certificate. Once grown, that child can, in many places, legally marry the grown child of John and Mary since it is presumed they are first cousins, but in actuality they are half-siblings. These things happen. The phenomenon of "double cousins" is also a thing.

That many famously accomplished people in history have married a cousin or been the child of cousins hasn't stopped the cruel and ignorant jokes that ridicule consanguinamorous lovers.

Cousin marriage has been going on for all of human history and is found in our ancient stories as well as our genealogies. In many places around the world, these marriages are still common.The patchwork of laws with varying degrees of discrimination are problematic as travel, studying abroad, foreign work stints, and migration become more common.

Some first cousins in heterosexual relationships might not see the need to legalize and protect same-sex marriages, and some LGBT people might not see the need to legalize and protect first cousin marriages or might avoid seeking solidarity where same-sex marriages are not yet legalized or are tenuous in their public support, but solidarity would be best. Facts and fairness are on the side of those who support the rights of all consenting adults to have their relationships.

Consenting adults may do things with each other that might disgust a majority of other adults, but that disgust of others should not prevent the consenting adults from having their sex or love lives. Each of us should stand up for the relationship rights of all consenting adults. The disgusted person is free to not have such relationships, but should recognize that other adults should be free to have orientations, feelings, and relationships they may not understand, and free to express their sexual desires with, and affections for, other consenting adults in the ways they want.

Here are a few relationships involving cousins.


Have you ever been involved with a cousin? Are you now? You can always leave a comment below or write fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

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There Is No Good Reason to Deny the Consanguineous Freedom to Marry

Over and over again, we see there is no good reason to deny people in consanguinamorous relationships their right to be together, including their freedom to marry. There is no good reason to deny full marriage equality for all adults.

Anti-equality bigots don't have good arguments, so instead of arguing they'll usually say, after making their ignorant assertion, something like "I'm not going to discuss this any further!" or they'll try to insult the person who disagrees with their hateful, prejudiced statements.

Repeating the same prejudiced assertion over and over again isn't an argument.

The rhetorical equivalents of jumping up and down, rolling eyes, pointing, and saying "See! We said this would happen!" is not an argument.

Recently [a while ago now], a bunch of sister publications profiled a couple who are Friends of FME and Friends of Lily and even more recently, professional anti-equality websites printed reactions because they knew it would get them a lot of hits. Their readers actually like to read about these relationships, as is obvious from their reactions and comments. Of course they claim to protest, but their actions betray them. They read, and then shriek into the echo chamber a few of the usual Discredited Arguments, often #1, 4, 18, and 22.

They don't bother to consider that the couple in the article not only were not raised together, but didn't even know of each others' existence until they were heading for middle age. The haters don't bother to take into account this couple will not be having children. They do not grasp that saying "they'll have mutant babies!" doesn't apply because they're not going to be having babies together. (These people often have much ignorance about human sexuality and reproduction.)

I replied to the tweets from the official accounts, and that prompted some rabid haters to attack me. They kept repeating Discredited Arguments 1, 18, and 22 and restating what they thought was going on, as if these were reasons the lovers shouldn't be together. They kept addressing me as though I was someone in the article, demonstrating a lack of a grasp on basic reality.

I detail the Twitter exchanges below, but I offer a TRIGGER WARNING because of their bigotry, which includes transphobia, homophobia, ableism, anti-equality, anti-consanguinity, and sexual assault.



I tweeted to @BethanyRedYarn @BreitbartNews "They're for real. And many other people have similar lives. But nobody can make you believe it."


For that, someone named "Cole" @xXNoPCXx replied with the ever-so-thoughtful...

Just look at the picture... No need to even respond, to this idiotic ranting of a confused child of incest.

By picture, I assume he means the same picture at the top corner of this blog. Somehow, from that, he infers my parents are close relatives, though they aren't.

Here's an "argument" that was typical of "Cole" @xXNoPCXx

You're talking about incest, that's not a right you ignorant f---.

(Censoring by me to protect your delicate eyes. Yeah, he's got quite the potty mouth.) It didn't matter how much I gave him links to try to enlighten him. Another one from him...

If science isn't proof enough, I guess I'm out of luck. Go f--- your goat.

By "science" he apparently meant Discredited Argument #18; never mind they won't be having kids. I tweeted back "So if they are older, sterile, or same-sex, you have no objection? Or is this just a red herring?" To which his fail of a response was...

No red herring. It's disgusting and science proves my point.

He thinks his saying "science" is some kind of magic word, apparently, even though he's wrong. He also had this priceless analysis...

You think because you're tolerant, and I'm not, I'm not Christian like. Surprise, you're an idiot.

Yes, Cole is definitely Christian-like, as we can see. I hadn't said anything about religion, so this must be a canned answer he uses to charm people.

A typical assertion of his...

Consenting siblings should be able to f--- each other is disturbing. Like being a tranny. It's not right. At all.

He couldn't explain exactly what was wrong with transgender people or consenting adults being together. His slur that these things are disturbing doesn't make it so. He got paranoid...

As they infringe on my rights? It's unhealthy and if people with same parents want to f---, go to Iraq.

He couldn't explain exactly how adults being together how they want would infringe on his rights. I have no idea what Iraq has to do with this. These relationships exist everywhere. I wrote "Also, we let people w/ obvious genetic diseases have sex, marry, have children. So why not healthy 40-somethings?" His response?

You're a walking example of that

Well, there you go. He sure showed me, didn't he? Not really. He tried this brilliant argument...

And there are laws against incest. Google it

I responded "There were laws against interracial relationships, too. And there are no laws against it in many countries, and three states."

Even though he seemed to think some places having laws against it was enough, he jumped to another position and wrote...

I don't need a law to tel me something is wrong. Maybe you do

To which I responded with "But you do need a good reason to deny people their rights. Otherwise you'll keep losing in courts." I also wrote "It is immoral to persecute consenting adults for loving each other. How about dem apples?"

His brilliant retort?

That's a stupid statement from a stupid person. If one consents to f---ing horses, is that okay too? Consent doesn't equal acceptable you moronic waste of incest. Go f--- your sister and leave me alone

I explained, "We're talking consenting adults who can enter into legal contracts, which is what marriage is. You never gave a reason to outlaw."

Defeated multiple times, he went on to Discredited Argument #22...

It's mentally unhealthy. Ask a Dr. You need help, go enjoy cuddling with your mother and sister. 

It's pretty sad that people spout off their hatred as though it is meaningful.

Someone named Ms. Understood, RN @TDsVoice jumped in because she apparently didn't think there was enough hate, but she couldn't handle me and blocked me. But before she did, she wrote...

Why do u keep trying 2 convince me what ur doing isn't harmful? U should be convinced yet ur not.

Patiently, I wrote "I'm not doing anything but defending people who met in their 40s and fell in love. Do you have a reason to deny them their rights?"

She didn't, but she thought throwing out an "Amen!" to her own statement was somehow convincing.

Let's get back to Cole @xXNoPCXx. Completely impotent against reason and legal precedents, he came up with this skillful line of logic, still mistaking me for some imaginary foe of his own mind...

Go away you sister f---ing, goat raping pedophile. It's not a right to f--- your siblings.

Yes, defending middle-aged people who met as adults and fell in love means someone is a "sister f---ing, goat raping pedophile." Can you believe people like this get to vote? We've made it clear and made it clear to them repeatedly that we're talking about consenting adults. We're against abuse. But Cole sure seems to think sexually about kids a lot. And goats. Maybe there's something he needs to get off his chest?

Since the anti-equality people have no good arguments, they will keep losing. It is just a matter of time before laws catch up to reality as well as court precedents so that an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion is free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults. Thanks to Cole and Ms. Understood (who certainly did misunderstand) for demonstrating again the lack of reason on the anti-equality side.

Since both of these people are in such a delicate state, you should use discretion should you decide to tweet back to them, which of, course, you are free to do until they block you.


To see all my Tweets, go to http://www.twitter.com/FullMEquality

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Aunts and Nephews

More days than not, someone finds this blog by doing a search on something like...

incest, aunt nephew, how common
or
Is it incest to have sex with your aunt
or
Do aunts and nephews have sex
or
I’m in love with my aunt
or
Can an aunt marry her nephew

You get the idea. People are searching for information on aunts and nephews having a romantic or erotic connection or marrying. At least some of them are very likely to be aunts who are having sex or want to have sex with a nephew and vice-versa. It is a not-so-distant runner-up to searches about siblings having sex or marrying. Keep in mind that much of this entry also applies to aunts and nieces, and to uncles and nieces and uncles and nephews.



Around these parts, an “aunt” can be:

• A mother’s or father’s or grandmother’s or grandfather’s  sister
• A wife or partner or girlfriend of a mother or father’s sibling.
• A cousin once-removed or of some other degree who is old enough to be from the an older generation
• A family friend or friend of a mother or father

In the last category, it is an informal and honorary title.

Note that if a woman is an aunt because she is a sibling to your stepparent or a stepgrandparent, there’s likely no close genetic relation, and the same is likely the case if adoption was somehow involved, meaning your parent and your aunt are adopted siblings to each other. An “aunt” who is actually a cousin of some sort is likely distant enough to legally marry or to have sex with without threats of interference from law enforcement.

And, of course, if someone is an aunt by partnering with or marrying your blood relative, then she likely isn’t a close genetic relative.

Regardless of distance of genetic relation, an aunt and nephew getting together may be considered incestuous in the social sense and, depending on where you are, in the criminal sense as well. The concerns people have about adult intergenerational relationships may also come into play. If you’re at all familiar with this blog, you have seen that we think such stigmas and laws should be done away with.

However, there’s still the concern of cheating. If she is your aunt because she is in a relationship with your uncle or aunt, do they have a negotiated polyamorous relationship? Or if she is your genetic relation and she is partnered, is their relationship polyamorous or not? The same concerns apply to whatever relationship the nephew may be in.

I suppose there are many reasons why this is such a popular search, or, in other words, why aunts are interested in their nephews and nephews are interested in their aunts, in addition to what makes consanguinamory in general appealing to some people. It doesn’t seem to be as taboo as siblings getting together or an adult child and their parent, and perhaps an aunt is almost a maternal or sibling surrogate. As always, I’m talking about adults, or minors close in age to each other. Not all aunts are much older than their nephews. Some are about the same age or even younger. When an aunt is a sibling to a parent.I suppose consanguinamory is more common if the aunt is a parent’s younger sister rather than an older one, simply because that places the aunt closer in age to the nephew. Aunts often provide reassurance, support, love, guidance, and are more likely to flirt with their nephews without the same social disapproval as would be more common if the flirtations came from a parent. So an aunt can play somewhat of a maternal or big-sister role but without the disciplinarian or rivalry aspect. An aunt can take her nephew out for the day without raising concerns. They can be fun!

As for nephews, when an aunt is the father’s sister, a nephew may remind her of good times she had with his father, or wish she’d had.

It is possible that some of the people doing such searches are parents or other family members who either know or suspect something is going on between an aunt and nephew, and if so, they should definitely read this.

It is also of note that if a nephew reached puberty without the aunt being much of a presence in his life before then due, perhaps, to living out of town, then the factors involved in Genetic Sexual Attraction could very well be in play.

Finally, if you’re an aunt or nephew (or uncle or niece) who has some experience of this short (or would like to), you are encouraged to write an email to fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com.

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My cousin, heroin and how his death shaped how I work with young people today

One of the questions I am most often asked by students, teachers and parents alike is why I got into this area and why I am so passionate about the topic. There are really two parts to the answer - the first, fairly boring and uninteresting and the second, deeply personal ... 

The boring part is simply that I fell into it - there was no grand plan and I certainly never saw myself as ending up working in the alcohol and other drug field. Ask anyone I went to school (or teachers college or university) with  and they would say I was most probably the last person they would imagine would end up in that area. I trained as a primary school teacher, taught for a number of years and then left, moving through a number of jobs until finally ending up working at the National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre (NDARC) at UNSW. Schools would occasionally call the Centre and ask for a researcher to give a presentation to students and, not surprisingly, no-one was interested. One day, someone suggested I do it ... and that's how it all started ...

For the first few years it was simply something I did - it certainly wasn't a passion. In one of my previous jobs I had developed drug education resources so I knew the literature. 'One-off' presentations by outside speakers were not effective, with the classroom teacher being the best person to deliver drug education. Don't get me wrong, I loved working with young people again, but I didn't necessarily believe that I was making much of a difference - I didn't think I could ... That all changed in the year that my family discovered that my cousin David was using heroin ...

You often read about 'troubled' young people – that definitely described David. Red-haired, freckled and slightly overweight, he had always been self-conscious and really didn't know where he fitted in the world. My extended family, including David, all lived in the UK (my parents emigrating to Australia when I was 10) and so when they discovered that he was using heroin in 2000 they immediately asked if I would travel home to try and assist him to get onto some sort of drug treatment program. At that time he was 27-years-old.

Understandably, the whole family, but particularly my aunt (his mother), was devastated when David's heroin use was discovered. She came from a generation that simply did not understand illicit drug use. Although she had heard of heroin, it was something that characters in a movie or a television soap opera used, definitely not her son. When I flew to the UK it was as much to support her as it was to assist David to find a suitable program. She had so many questions and did not know where to go for the answers. She had done all the right things – she had gone to a counsellor, she had looked for a local parent support group – but she was confused and felt terribly alone. She was living in a different world to that of David, and regardless of the phenomenal love they had for each other, the chasm that was between them in terms of drug knowledge and experience was proving extremely problematic. When I arrived, my first priority was to stop my aunt from continuing to go to David's dealer to buy the heroin for him, as she innocently believed that, if she got caught, she wouldn't get into trouble because the drug wasn't for her. She was only helping her son - how could she get into trouble for that?

David and I immediately bonded. My family had moved to Australia when I was 10 and, although I had met him a number of times on previous visits, I really didn't know him at all. He always had problems in the years that I got to know him but, regardless of the issues, I found him to be a wonderful, caring human being. He was fascinated with what I did for a living and was always asking me questions about a whole range of substances. All of us had been completely unaware of his extensive drug use history. He had been using drugs for years, had tried almost everything and had even become involved in organised crime and trafficking. Like most drug users, however, he had no desire to hurt himself as a result of his drug use and although his behaviour could be extremely self-destructive, he was keen to find out as much as he could about the 'story' behind a range of drugs so that things would not go wrong. He told me over and over again that he would have loved to have been given the opportunity to hear some of the information I was sharing with him when he was younger. When I asked him what was wrong with the drug education he did receive from school and the like, one thing he said particularly resonated with me - "They kept telling me what they thought I should know instead of what I actually wanted to know ..."

From that day on I started to change how I present to young people, particularly in terms of the messaging I developed. It's no wonder that young people don't listen to us when it comes to this area, so much of the information we provide is designed to shock and scare. Drug education is about so much more than information provision, but it is a part of it - we need to make sure what we are providing them is credible and useful. We rarely, if ever, ask teens what they want to know in this area, instead focussing on trying to ensure that they never go near drugs. When I started to go into schools and ask students what information they would like, the overwhelming response was how to look after each other. Most of them drink or take drugs to have a 'good time', they certainly don't have any desire to hurt themselves or anyone else. What did they need to do if something went wrong? If we give them information like that, it still lets them know about the risks and hopefully illustrates that 'no use' is the best and safest option, it's just provided in a way that is more palatable to young people. When I started to change the messaging, the response from students changed dramatically ...

David died from a heroin overdose in 2007. He was 34-years-old. My cousin was a great success story in so many ways. Although he had had relapses he had found real happiness in the last year or two of his life. He had met someone and the last time I saw him he told me his life had never been so together. Six months before he died he had saved enough money to travel overseas with the girl he cared so much about and his life appeared to be heading in the right direction. We will most probably never really know what went wrong but regardless of what happened I know he is in a better place.

When I wrote my book in 2009 I dedicated it to David and his mother, my Aunty Pat (who sadly passed away last year). Both had been looking for answers to a whole range of questions about drugs for a long time. I don't think my aunt ever really got the answers she so desperately wanted and needed - I don't think any parent who loses their child ever does - but I did often say to her that it was my time with David that truly shaped what I do today. It certainly didn't stop her hurting (she never recovered from his death) but she truly appreciated that David's story and even his death had resulted in something positive ... 

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NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #19

“There are so many people outside of your family. Go marry/have sex with one of them, instead. It creates friendships between families.” There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. I have many friends outside of my family to whom I’m neither married nor married to a relative of theirs. On the other hand, don't we all know unrelated married couples who actually drive their relatives apart from each other? Let adults marry the consenting adult(s) of her or his choice.

Telling someone who is happy with their lover that they should dump that person (or even be prosecuted for being with that person) and should be denied their right to marry because there is someone else they can be with instead is an arrogant and usually, very much a cruel intrusion into someone else's life. How would the person who says this like it if someone told them they had to drop their lover (if they have one) and go find someone else, even though they are consenting adults who want to be together and are happy together?

There are people in consanguinamorous relationships who could never find as much love and happiness with someone else, and trying to force them to do so isn't fair to anyone, including the person for whom they "settle."

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://ift.tt/1K0B6Zj

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #18

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love #20

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Casting Call For Cousins

Cheryl Hockey, Assistant Producer, Sugar Films http://ift.tt/2o984iD is looking for cousins in relationships with each other.

I'm working on a documentary about cousin marriage for a British broadcaster.  As I'm sure you know, marrying your cousin is legal in Britain.  It is still fairly popular among the British Pakistani community here and the documentary will follow a young woman, from this community, who's considering the possibility of marrying one of her cousins.

On her journey she is keen to meet cousin couples from all different communities, and possibly countries.  She understands there is often a taboo around this topic, especially in other communities, so hopes it will raise awareness and also help to reduce prejudice around cousin relationships/marriage.

All initial conversations would be confidential and by people getting in touch with us it wouldn't commit them to taking part in any filming.

She says the best way to contact her is via her email or her office number:

cheryl@sugarfilms.co.uk /
00 44 2031464533

As always, we advise careful consideration as it would be great to have increased visibility and media representation, but if you've been closeted there may be some risks, and of course you don't have control over how consanguineous relationships will be portrayed in the finished production.

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