A New GSA Blog and Jane's Latest

Here's a new blog written by a woman in a Genetic Sexual Attraction relationship with her father.

Also, Jane has updated her blog with an entry about being on the consanguinamory spectrum in orientation but being in a "regular" relationship.

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Sleeping more than eight hours increases risk of death from heart disease and/or stroke.

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Polygamy and Public Assistance

I'm including a submission from a polygynist friend of FME. The following reflects his thoughts. I will make a brief comment at the end.

*****

Q: I would like more explanation of what the polygamist mindset is like, because to mono people it is so hard to understand. For example. As a mono person all I can imagine is that there is one guy who is fathering 20 or more children and the state ends up providing everything for the family because they can't manage on their own. I don't think that it is right for the state or taxpayers to have to take care of all the children that are born into these families. These so called families are just lazy and want a free ride from the rest of us.

A: That is a very good question. And I am so glad that you brought that up. The fact of the matter is that it is really easy to think that one man is going to have so many children and not be able to take care of them. In today's society we hear a lot about unwed mothers who have a lot of children in order to collect state benefits. But the truth is that polygamists believe in families. Polygamists are family oriented and not oriented toward the single lifestyle. Due to that fact and the fact that polygamy is illegal, most polygamists have learned to be self sufficient and rely on themselves for their needs. Just look at the TV show "Sister Wives." The husband and some of the wives have real jobs that they go to. But they also started their very own business. It is called My Sister Wife's Closet. I know of polygamist families that have started their own restaurants. One of which is centered around polygamy so that people can take a trip and experience what its like in that community. 

As for myself, I have done so many things to ensure that my children and way of life is preserved. I bought my own home and land. I own it completely. I don't pay a mortgage or anything else. I even buy my cars outright. So by buying my own property, homes, vehicles and everything else, I am not in debt. Everything that I bring in is free and clear. Most people today are living paycheck to paycheck and can barely afford the rent or mortgage that they have. I don't have that problem. Also, what is great about owning land is that I can always grow the food that I need for my family. We produce so much food that we give food away to others in need.

I always knew that I wanted to have a big family. Because of that, I took the time to think about my life and what I needed to do to provide for them. I can't speak for all polygamists, but for the ones that I do know, they all understand that in order to have big families that they will need to work hard and do whatever they need to do to ensure that their families succeed in life.

The fact is that there are many people out there in the world that do try and take advantage of the system and get what they can from it. But most polygamists aren't that way and will do whatever they need to in order to survive so they don't bring more attention to them then they already have. But in the end, if there are people who need a helping hand in life because they have fallen on hard times, then what's the problem with us being good neighbors and helping them to the best of our abilities?

Let me ask you something. Have you ever thought about what a man has to do in order for a woman to want to marry him? The man has to show the woman that he can provide for her and the family. And have you ever thought about what a woman has to do in order to choose a man to marry? She has to think long and hard about whether or not the man can provide for her. What woman would want to marry a man that was a bum? Not many, I can tell you that. Now imagine what it's like for one man to show four women that he can provide for them. 

But in the end, the men and the women understand that they all need to provide for their families, not just the man. What I mean is that the women understand that they need to take an active part in doing what is needed for their family to survive, also. I know some wives work, not because the man doesn't make enough money but because they want to take some of the burden away from the man so that they can all have more quality time together. No wife and children would be happy if the husband and father was never home because he was gone all the time working. I know of polygamist families where the man had lost his job and the wives had to go to work because the man couldn't find work. The whole family pitches in. That's what love is all about. 

The polygamist family works as a team to ensure that the needs of the family are met. No matter what the needs are or what they have to do.

*****


People are increasingly realizing the advantages of determining their own roles and making mutual agreements with their partner(s) rather than trying to conform to "traditional" gender roles and hetero-monogamist constructs to which they're not suited. There will always be some families that are polygynist and in which the husband will be the highest earner. But there are many other families where this is not the case, and families in which the adults are all men or all women, or with multiple men and one woman, or multiple men and multiple women. They can determine for themselves who will earn income and who will be with the children when. Some of them will have home-based businesses.

What is the current system in the US when it comes to welfare benefits? A polygynist man can only have one lawful wife. So, he's legally married to none or just one of his wives. In the US, if a mother isn't legally married, she is more likely to qualify for public assistance. Allowing all adults to marry any and all consenting adults would make it more likely these women would be legally married, making it less likely they will qualify for public assistance. It seems to me that the argument asking "Aren't polygamists a drain on public assistance?" is actually an argument for legalization of polyamorist or polygamist or plural marriage.

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Four questions you need answered to make a decision about whether your teen attends a party or not and ... where should you get that info from?

I've spoken and written about this many times before but over the last couple of weeks I have met a number of parents who have had some horror experiences with their teen and a party and when you look closely at what happened, it all went wrong because they simply didn't find out enough about the event before they let their child attend … Do just a little 'digging' before you say 'yes' to your teen and you can save yourself a great deal of heartache later. I know this isn't easy and that your child won't want you to ask questions and collect the relevant information but if you want to ensure your child's safety on a Saturday night, you really don't have any other choice!

Mandy's 14-year-old daughter Elise desperately wanted to go to a friend's 15th birthday party. Mandy trusted her daughter when she told her that it was only a small gathering and that she would also be staying the night at the house with a couple of other girls once the party had ended. She dropped her daughter off at another one of her friend's house where they were apparently going to get ready as a group and then be dropped off by a parent to the actual party. At around midnight Mandy received a phone call from the police. Elise had been found in the city, alone, drunk and unconscious! She was later to discover that there had been no birthday party, instead Elise and her friends had caught the train into the city where they had met up with a group of older boys and been drinking since early evening.

I have heavily disguised this story at the mother's request, as she is so mortified by what happened and fears being identified. She approached me after a parent session recently and now feels so stupid that she did absolutely no checking … She trusted her 14-year-old daughter and, as such, didn't make one phone call, speak to any other adult or attempt to confirm anything she had been told. Just one phone call to the mother supposedly hosting the birthday party would have resulted in her finding out that there wasn't even going to be a party but she didn't even do that!

This is a bit of a 'rehash' of a piece I wrote a couple of years ago, but it's worth putting out there again! Hopefully more parents will have a read and realize how vital this is ...

When your child's school makes the decision to take students on an excursion, the number of hoops teachers have to jump through to ensure each and everyone of those young people is as safe as possible is quite unbelievable. How are they going to get there? What will the student-adult ratio be? What transport company is going to be used to get them there and do they have the correct accreditation? The list goes on and on and you know what, as parents, you wouldn't expect anything less ... the school has a responsibility to keep your child safe while they are in its care and it doesn't matter whether they're going to a museum or wildlife park, it takes a lot of effort to ensure safety.

So why then do we not see more parents putting the same level of effort into finding out even a little more about the party or gathering their child is wanting to attend on a Saturday night? Let's quickly do a comparison - a school excursion for a class of Year 10s to a museum in the middle of the day and a 15 year-old birthday party held on a Saturday night for 80-100 of their closest friends - I think it's pretty obvious which one is likely to be the most risky!

As Mandy was to find out, you can't simply rely on your child for this information. Put really simply, they will only tell you what they want you know and will not hesitate to lie through their teeth to get what they want! I know there are some people who get very angry when I say this, but all teenagers lie - I certainly did, I guarantee you did and if you really want to believe that your child is the only adolescent in human history not to tell an untruth then go ahead and get prepared to be terribly hurt at some point in the future!

So what information should you be after and if you can't rely on your child to give it to you, where do you get it from? When it comes to what parents need to know about a party to ensure their child's safety the list could go on forever, but essentially (regardless of your child's age) I would recommend the following four bits of information be gathered:

• Whose party is it and do you know them and/or their parents?
• Where will the party be held?
• Will the parents be there and will they be actively supervising the party?
• What time does it start and what time does it finish?

Based on the answers to these questions, parents should be able to establish whether or not they think the event is safe for their child to attend or not. As I said, this information should be collected regardless of the child's age - it doesn't matter if they're 6 or 16, if they're invited to anyone's home for a party doesn't every parent want to know the answer to these questions? It's also important to acknowledge that I have tested these questions with over 300 young people and almost all of them had no problem with three of them - they hated the other one … Which one did they have the issue with? The third one, the one that usually involves more than just a one-word answer - as I' sure you are aware, they would much prefer you not to talk to anyone, let alone have a conversation with them!

So where do you get this information from? When your child asks you if they can attend a party it is at this point that you ask them your standard questions about the events to which they are invited. Hopefully you have made your expectations about the information you need clear over time (and from an early age) and fingers crossed they will provide this without any problems but you need to remember that around Year 9 and 10 you're going to start seeing their willingness to do this start to taper off. It is at this time that you must make sure you access other sources.

Without a doubt the most important source of information is the parent who is putting on the party. Now there is no way that your teen will want you to make contact and if you've never done this before and you start doing it when they are 15-years-old you'll have a huge fight on your hands, but in my experience, if your child knows at the age of 10 that you call the house beforehand and you continue to do it over time - it's just what you do - you're not going to have anywhere near as much of an issue in the later years. It should be noted that these calls don't always go well (particularly if you start asking questions about alcohol) and can end up leaving some parents feeling very frustrated but as far as the safety of your child is concerned, they're vital!

Talk to other parents as well and find out what they know about the party. What time are you dropping off your child? Where are you dropping them off? Do you know the parents who are putting it on? Does their information match what you've been told by your son or daughter? This source of information is particularly important if you have concerns about the event, e.g., you called the house and you didn't feel entirely comfortable with the response you got from the parent but you haven't got any real concrete reason not to allow your teen to attend. Another option is to take a look at social media and see what has been posted about the party - if you're doing your due diligence and monitoring your child's online activity to some extent (hopefully with their knowledge and consent - I'm certainly not advocating spying on your children - be honest about what you're doing) this should not be too difficult to access and can prove very useful.

Now at this point I can imagine there would be some people who would be reading this and saying 'but at some point don't I have to trust my teen when it comes to parties?' Absolutely! As I say over and over again, with any rule around teens and parties they need to be fair and age-appropriate. When they're younger and not likely to be doing anything particularly risky, that's the time when these rules should be 'airtight' - call the parents holding the party every time, take your child to the door and meet the parents, pick them up on time and no excuses, if they're late or they break any of the rules, there are consequences. When they're young and not doing anything wrong they have no problems with rules - in fact, at the age of 12-13 and they even have rules around parties they get pretty excited as it makes them feel more adult. As they get older of course they're going to want these rules relaxed and that can happen gradually over time as they demonstrate good behaviour and build and maintain your trust.

It will be impossible for you to know everything about a party that your child attends, regardless of how much effort you put into it. It is also important that parents don't risk jeopardising the positive relationship they have with their teen by obsessing in this area. In their final year of high school when they're not far short of 18, calling parents hosting parties to find out about each and every event your teen is invited to is going to be a recipe for disaster. Of course, if there is one party you are particularly worried about, for whatever reason, do your parental duty and call the hosts and, if need be, try your best to prevent them from going but at that age if you push too hard you run the risk of embarrassing your child and damaging your relationship. They are teenagers and they will make mistakes and poor decisions and, as hard as it may be, you have to let them stumble and fall occasionally. That said, you don't do this when they're 14 or 15, it's simply too dangerous and they don't have the life experience should something go wrong ... It's at this age when you do your very best to find out all you can about where they'll be on Saturday night, who they're going to be with and what they're planning on doing!

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Let's Break the Silence and Bring People Out of the Shadows and Closets

One definition of "taboo" is "a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice."

That means it is possible for many people to be doing something and still have it "taboo" in the sense that nobody talks about it, at least not openly or publicly. The problem with not talking about things is that such silence can lead to serious negative consequences.

Thanks to technology, people can search out information about something without having to ask someone they live with or next to, or a teacher.

Want to know the most popular entry for this blog?

It's not even close.

The most popular entry on this blog, by far, is the entry addressing a frequently asked question of "How Common is Consensual Incest (Consanguinamory)? People from all over the world, but especially North America, Europe, India, and Australia, use search engines to answer the question, and those searches bring them here. The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post more translated entries?)

Before going further, let’s make it clear this entry is talking about sex or sex-play or exploration that is consensual (we’ll call it Category S), not anything involving assault, molestation, or coercion (Category X). We shouldn’t have to reiterate that “sex” means consensual, but unfortunately we still do. (It’s not sex if it isn’t consensual, it is assault.)

The volume of searches and visits can't be accounted for solely by curiosity and journalistic or academic research. Some of that volume is from people who are, were, or want to be involved, or think or are certain someone they know is, perhaps even their partner. We know this because of the comments they leave and the messages they send, and all of the other entries they visit after coming to the blog through their initial question.

Based just on searches that invoke the question and other searches that find this blog*, there are a lot of people who have been involved, are involved, or want to be involved sexually or romantically, or want to be married to, someone law or custom forbids as too close of a relative. Yes, some people are completely disgusted by the thought, but clearly there are many who aren't. And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault. Even if person A is disgusted by the thought persons B and C having sex, or doesn't understand why these people are involved, persons B and C should be free to be together how they mutually agree.



Some people involved are extremely cautious about reaching out, fearing that they will be discovered by law enforcement, family, a current partner, or an ex with whom they have a child custody dispute, or an employer or client or customers or neighbors who harbor prejudice against people in such relationships. After all, there have been a lot of recent bus sightings. Some of the people who do reach out are highly accomplished, successful, educated, and intelligent people. It's cruel and pointless to compel them to hide (at least some aspects of) a loving relationship with another consenting adult. There is no good reason they should be denied their rights.


There are people who don’t recognize (or admit to themselves) that they have been involved. When some people hear or read the word “incest” they think of Category X. If that didn’t happen to them, they might say they’ve never been involved in incest, not thinking of, say, the time they and a sibling masturbated in front of each other as incest, or even if they've engaged in oral sex with an aunt or uncle close in age to them, or heard/saw their parent(s) having sex were somewhat aroused by it. While first cousins can legally marry in many places, there are still some places that criminalize sex between first cousins, and so involvement with a cousin is considered "incest" as is, in some places and circumstances, involvement with a step relation.

What else could fall under Category S?  The people who are hurt most by prejudice against consanguinamory are people who are living as spouses already and  are married in every sense of the word except by law, who are not only denied their right to legally marry, but in many places, can lose everything and be imprisoned (or even executed) if outed. However, it doesn’t have to be a lifelong spousal relationship to fall under Category S. It could be exploration during adolescence, a fling during adulthood, a sibling-with-benefits arrangement, asexual but romantic dates, or relieving the frustration of an family member who is injured or disabled and unable (even if temporarily) to do it themselves.


The conditions that bring about reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction have increased, and so there are more situations involving GSA, and many of those situations lead to some sexual involvement.

Some of the most popular themes of erotica and porn are considered incestuous, and while someone’s tastes in such material may be entirely based on a fantasy they’d never pursue in real life (for example, people who don’t have siblings or aren’t attracted to their sibling who enjoy erotica involving siblings), there is clearly not only much involvement, but much interest as well. Although, it should be noted that fantasy media is often very different from how things are in reality, and that applies to porn with these themes, too.


As long as we’re talking consensual interaction, it shouldn’t matter if it is experimentation, recreation, or passionate, bonding lovemaking, or in the context of a lifelong romance or a one night hookup; it shouldn’t be illegal anywhere and it shouldn't have be kept a secret. It is happening, and it always has, and nobody needs to be harmed as a result.



Here's what I hope people take away from this entry:


1. If you've had these relationships, experiences, desires, or fantasies, you're not alone, and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with you. There is help. Also, you are welcome here. We support your rights.

2. Laws and stigmas against these relationships, experiences, desires, and fantasies need to be done away with and replaced with protection of rights, and people need to be able to talk about these matters. Even if you haven't been involved, you know someone who has, so please be an ally.


3. There can and should be be fair and compelling media portrayals of these subjects, both in nonfiction and fiction, in drama and comedy. The subject has always been in our stories, from Greek mythology to The Bible to Game of Thrones to the antics of various reality television performers.

4. Serious academic research into these subjects should be encouraged rather than discouraged.

5. Therapists, counselors, social workers, and medical professionals interacting with people who have these involvements should accept and reinforce that such desires, experiences, and relationships are not inherently problematic (some do, all should).




*Here are just some actual search terms that brought people to this blog recently. There are many variations of these that are somewhat redundant, too, and these search terms have all been  used many times...

sibling sex
incestuous marriage
is incest normal
can i marry my sister
how common is sibling intercourse
mother son incest
sibling incest
sibling marriage
can brother and sister marry
can siblings marry
is it legal to marry your sibling
is it illegal to marry your sibling
can you marry your sister
can i marry my brother
mother daughter sex
sex between siblings
can a brother and sister marry
where is incest legal
can siblings get married
aunt and nephew relationships
can you marry your sibling
can you marry your brother
marriage between brother and sister
can brother and sisters get married
mother son marriage
sibling marriage laws
is it illegal to marry your sister
can brother and sister get married
is it legal to marry your sister
can two brothers get married
is it legal to marry your brother
marrying siblings
can half siblings marry
states where you can marry your sister
can brother marry sister
sibling sex relationships
is it illegal to marry your brother
i want to marry my sister
marriage between siblings
incest mother son
is it legal for siblings to marry
brother and sister marriage laws
marrying your sister
is it normal for siblings to experiment
is incest a crime
positive incest experiences
consensual mother son incest
is it illegal to date your sibling
half siblings marriage
why is sibling marriage illegal
mom son marriage
sibling couples
sexual relations between siblings
is it common for siblings to experiment sexually
mother son couple
why is it illegal to marry a sibling
mom son couple
where can you marry your sister
what percentage of siblings have sex
experiences with adult sibling sex

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Clearing Up Consanguinity

Many people get confused about terms like "second cousins" and "once removed" when referring to close but not-so-close relations. Your parent's sibling's child is your first cousin. That person's child would be your first cousin, once removed. That person's child and your child would be second cousins.

Here's a helpful chart that can help explain it.

Source: http://www.sanantonio.gov/atty/ethics/ConsanguinityChart.htm

Remember, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with, dating, or even marrying a cousin. Consanguineous relationships and marriages are nothing new. There are some countries and a little over half of US states where the bigotry against marriage equality extends to preventing first cousins from marrying, but there are many places where marrying a first cousin is legal and common. I'm only aware of a few US states where sex between first cousins is technically illegal, so check the laws of your state if you are concerned. It should be searchable on your official state website.

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NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11

“It will be a legal/paperwork nightmare as our system is set up for couples.” That’s what the bigots said about same-gender marriage and the Americans With Disabilities Act and just about any civil rights laws. Of course it is easier for those who already have what they want to keep things as they are. But what about all of the people who are denied their rights?

Adopting the polygamous freedom to marry under full marriage equality will take much less adjustment than adopting the Americans With Disabilities Act, the Violence Against Women Act and many other laws necessary to for equal protection and civil rights. Contract and business law already provides adaptable examples of how law can accommodate configurations involving three or more people, including when someone joins an existing relationship or leaves a relationship.


There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12

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Women’s Equality Day in US

It’s Women’s Equality Day in the US: http://www.nwhp.org/resources/commemorations/womens-equality-day/10-ideas-for-womens-equality-day/


In that spirit we note that women, regardless of sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

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GSA and Stepping Out

Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA) can prompt cheating in relationships that otherwise would never have cheating. So if you’re reading this because you’ve cheated on a partner with your GSA contact, or because your partner may have cheated on you with their GSA contact, please keep that in mind. (You also might want to read this entry as well if you think you're being cheated on or are about to be.)

This blog endorses ethical nonmonogamy as no less valid and respectful than monogamy. Your blogger is polyamorous himself, but supports the rights of adults regardless of his own personal orientation and interests, including people who want monogamy.

This blog does not endorse cheating on a sexual, romantic, or spousal partner (which can happen in monogamous or polyamorous relationships), but also doesn’t endorse criminal punishment for cheating.

I don’t consider cheating to be egregious when it is to get some relief from a spouse or partner who has seriously broken vows or agreements by being abusive, neglectful, etc. Ideally, people would leave relationships in which they are being neglected or rejected, but that isn’t always possible or the best solution for a variety of reasons.

Relationships, especially marriages, can be very complicated. For example, it is easy for outsiders to see a married woman flirting with someone behind her husband’s back, and think less of her for doing so, but what those outsiders don’t see is that her husband barely interacts with her in private and refuses to even touch her and yet he wants her to go without affection and intimacy with others. Not wanting to break up the home of her young children before they are grown, she stays, and seeks comfort with others. Of course this kind of relationship situation happens regardless of genders.

In general, someone who is happy in a healthy relationship and is not deficient in their self-control will not cheat. However, when it comes to Genetic Sexual Attraction, someone who is in a happy relationship or would otherwise never cheat (not with a coworker, not with a neighbor, not with a former partner, not with anyone) may not withstand the dynamics involved, and may cheat as a result. If their relationship was already terminally ill, or experiencing serious problems, then keeping mutual GSA nonsexual is that much less likely.

GSA is usually overwhelming, and bonds formed in its caldera can become especially strong.

Is it possible for an existing relationship to withstand cheating initiated through GSA? Yes, if it is a strong one, and if the participants are willing to endure great difficulty.

The extra disadvantage GSA-based cheating adds to healing a relationship is that it is especially difficult to sever any of the bonds someone forms with their GSA partner(s). Whereas one response to cheating is to sever all contact with the person with whom one has cheated, reunited genetic relatives might find that approach unthinkable. So even if the sexual interaction ceases, which in itself can be extremely difficult to manage, a strong desire to be together may still present interference to other relationships.

Conversely the advantage is that, unless there are other genetic relatives who fit the required profile (gender, sexual orientation, etc.), the cheating partner who’d never cheated before isn’t likely to cheat anew with someone else, like you might see with someone who established a pattern of cheating with coworkers, who is willing to break it off with one coworker when caught, but may take up with another coworker after a little while.

If someone was already a cheater, there probably isn’t much hope for the relationship if GSA brings another cheating situation to the mix.

As with any cheating situation, for the prior relationship to survive in a healthy way, the partner who has been cheated on must either be ignorant of the situation or very understanding. Unfortunately, the stigma against consanguineous sex may preempt the offended partner’s willingness to move forward with the relationship, even if they would have done so had the affair been with an unrelated acquaintance. There are a few people, such as some subset of incest fetishists, who would find news of their partner acting on GSA to be arousing, and others who are very accommodating or understanding, but many people, even many who have supported their partner being polyamorous, are going to find consanguinamory on the part of their partner to be unacceptable, even if for no other reason than realizing the consanguinamorous bond could continue to be stronger than the one they have.

If it helps the hurt partner, they should know that if their cheating partner was not a cheater before, a GSA affair is not likely to signal that their partner will subsequently cheat with others.

GSA can and usually will bring upheaval to the life of those who experience it and their loved ones. That is especially so for any existing partner relationships. Being 1) introduced to a genetic sibling you didn’t know existed, or 2) reunited with a child you gave up for adoption, now a grown adult, or 3) even feeling very attracted to someone and later finding out you are close genetic relatives would be a major twist to life’s journey in and of itself (and those are just some of the GSA scenarios). Adding a strong unrequited attraction to the first two is even more to deal with, and mutual attraction, especially with erotic encounters resulting, is more still.

Compassion is needed all around.

Here are Jane's thoughts at the Consanguinamory blog addressing cheating and consanguineous relationships.

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