Dementia declining among American seniors

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Why Polyamory Will Gain Acceptance Faster

It’s not going to take as long for polyamorists to get our freedoms, including the freedom to marry, as it is taking (monogamist) gays and lesbians.

First, I need to have a bit of clarification here. Polyamory has always been around with some public awareness, whatever forms it has taken or whichever labels have been applied, especially if we go with the broad term ethical nonmonogamy instead.

What I mean is that in the US, as well as many other countries, there was a sustained period of trying to force everyone, or at least everyone but the elite, into heterosexual, gender-roled, married monogamy with spouses that were “acceptable” by class, race, religion, etc. Those deemed not suitable for marriage were often kept out of public life in general. For example, people with certain disabilities were expected to stay home or be institutionalized so as to not cause discomfort to people who would be uneasy around them. That oppression is in the process of being dismantled. We are ending the prosecutions, the persecutions, the stigmatizing, and everything else that makes it so people go into hiding (or hiding an important part of who they are) because of who they are and who they love.

Polyamorists haven't had a "Stonewall" moment. Many people cite the Stonewall Riots of 1969 as the start of gay and lesbian people fighting back against such persecution. It has been 44 years and same-gender couples are still barred from legally marrying in most US states and LGBT people still need employment protections (ENDA). But the momentum is rapidly building, especially with the recent Supreme Court actions on DOMA and PropH8 and the death of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” for military service, and all of the public figures who are coming out in support of the same-gender freedom to marry. There have been so many advancements since 1969.

Note that earlier in the 1960s, the US adopted laws to protect racial minorities nationwide, and the Loving v. Virginia case struck down bans on the interracial freedom to marry, over a hundred years after the Emancipation Proclamation. Women got the vote nationwide in 1920 and have made much progress, but are still on the journey.

So will polyamorists have to wait a couple of generations?

Happily, the answer is no. Here why:



1) Momentum. Note that gay civil rights have made progress much faster than feminist and racial civil rights. Likewise, rights for nonmonogamists and people who don’t want to marry at all will not take as long as gay rights. Momentum is building, and polyamorists should be exceedingly appreciative of the work done by the racial, feminist, gay, and lesbian civil rights champions.

2) Smaller opposition. Opposition to polyamory and the polygamous freedom to marry comes almost entirely from specific segments of religious conservatives, more and more of whom are warming up to the fact that civil marriages are not a threat to their churches and that it is destructive and wasteful to concentrate on trying to control adult relationships, especially when it comes to people who are not members of their church. There are some who oppose the polygamous freedom to marry out of concern for tax/benefit issues, but those concerns can be addressed without denying any adults the freedom to marry.

3) Less motivated opposition. Most of the above considered “line in the sand” to be the same-gender freedom to marry and are already resigned to polygamous freedom to marry upon national establishment of the same-gender freedom to marry. While some monogamist LGBT people bristle at the connection, what matters is that a connection exists in the mind of those who oppose the freedoms and they do not want to continue fighting one freedom if the other is established. Those who identify as LGBT monogamists have much more in common with those who identify as heterosexual monogamists than some heteros realize, but in the prejudiced mind, monogamist LGBT people and polyamorists are in the same big “other” category.

4) More existing understanding. Some strictly heterosexual people are disgusted by the thought of gay sex and much of the now-diminishing opposition from heterosexuals to the same-gender freedom to marry came from that. Or, if not disgusted, they (especially males) simply couldn’t understand how someone might find someone of the same gender sexually or romantically attractive. But almost everyone can understand (or has personally experienced) being romantically or sexually attracted to more than one person at the same time. They’ve had the feelings themselves; this is one reason they bring up polyamory when discussing the freedom to marry. While someone may not personally want to pursue polyamory, they are more likely to avoid opposing those who do. Also, for religious conservatives, there is a heritage of polyamory in their traditions and clear scriptural prohibitions are lacking in most traditions’ scriptures.

5) Strict monogamy is rare. Most people are mostly or strictly heterosexual in how they see themselves and live, even if they’ve had some experiences with someone of the same gender. Very few people are truly and strictly monogamists sexually, emotionally, romantically over the course of a lifetime. Extending rights to polyamorous people, including the polygamous freedom to marry, deals with a reality that everyone has experienced. For example, if someone has children with more than one person, and they are all agreeable to a marriage structure involving three or more people, why deny them that? Relationships, including marriage, usually involve more than one bond (erotic, romantic, friendship, cohabitational, parental, legal, financial, professional, shared interests) between the people involved, and sometimes one of those bonds may diminish or end with one person and begin or increase with another, but there is no reason to end the earlier relationship; there could be good reasons nobody wants to end the relationship. For example, a woman might share sex, residence, children, and a business with one man, and sex, romance, friendship, and a love of theatre with another.

6) Political compatibility. Progressives, libertarians, and conservatives can all find much to like in polyamory, which is why you can find polyamorists in just about all areas of the political map. Polyamorists who are progressives see cooperative and efficient living in polyamory. Libertarians (who generally oppose government restriction on adult behavior that doesn’t violate another’s property or person) and conservative polyamorists like the idea of people relying on each other rather than a government program.

7) Increased compassion. More and more people now recognize that letting consenting adults have their relationships and love each other as they want is the right thing to do, and opposing relationships between consenting adults is not only mean-spirited, but a waste.

8) Experience. While many LGBT people are monogamists, some socially/politically active LGBT people are polyamorists or poly-friendly, and they are already motivated and working towards full marriage equality, and experienced in advancing these civil rights.

While some people fighting for LGBT rights or the same-gender freedom to marry only care about LGBT rights and monogamy, or even reject association with or comparison to polyamorists (including LGBT polyamorists) others have shown solidarity. Polyamorists owe a great deal of thanks to those in the racial, feminist, gay and lesbian civil rights movements for opening minds and establishing rights for adults, as well as continuing solidarity in the fight for those rights. Polyamorists will get their rights faster not because the movement is stronger than the LGBT rights movement, but rather exactly because the LGBT rights movement has been so strong.

Relationship rights and full marriage equality for all adults is going to happen. We’re trying to make it happen sooner rather than later.

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When To Hold Back

Jane has some considerations that might indicate it isn't a good idea to pursue a consanguinamorous relationship.

These are mostly good suggestions for caution in pursuing any relationship, although I think there are some minors close in age to each other who are mature enough. On the other hand, my general advice to minors and very young adults is not to commit to exclusive relationships because most of them need more time to figure out who they are, what they have to offer, and what they need.

Here's what I've written about deciding whether or not to pursue.

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Why Do I Feel This Way?

Has anything like these ever happened to you?

• You wake from from an erotically charged dream, feeling strange or confused because it featured a close relative or family member.
  
  
• You're close to orgasm, whether you're alone or with at least one other person, and thoughts of a relative pop into your head, taking you to climax.
  
  
• You've found yourself admiring your relative "a little too much," whatever the setting or occasion.

If you have experienced anything like any of those, you're not alone. This is more common than many people think, because far more people have such thoughts than will admit to most people they know.

If we're talking about someone who recently came (back) into your life and you, they, or the both of you were essentially raised through childhood apart, then it could be reunion GSA, which is very common in such situations. See this page for more information. Most of this entry also applies to you, but is more focused on people who were always in each other's life, or for the most part have been.

Is It Normal?



Are sexual dreams with relatives or family members normal? Yes.

Is it normal to have fantasies or thoughts of getting together with a close relative or family member?  Yes.

Is it normal to think of a close relative or family member in a sexual or romantic way? Yes.

Is it normal to have feelings or crushes for a close relative or family member? Yes.


By "normal" we mean that there isn't necessarily anything wrong with you for having these thoughts and feelings and that they are very common, so much so that you know many other people who've had these thoughts and feelings, whether they've told you or not.

What Does It Mean?

You can have the above experiences without actually wanting to have sex. If the only thing you've noticed are dreams, then it might be that the dreams are only symbolic, not that you actually want to get sexual with your family member. There is also the possibility that the dreams are revealing to you latent desires, especially if you have waking feelings or thoughts and especially if the dreams, thoughts, or feelings are persistent.

In addition to any of the above sounding familiar to you, there are other possible signs you want to be with this person or these people as more than just family:

• You enjoy being around them and doing things with them. This might include evenings/weekends together at home or going out together in what might look like a date in the view of stranger, taking trips and vacations together, etc.
• You enjoy their scent, whether their hair or their cologne/perfume or any scent associated with them
• You enjoy touching them and touch them more than you touch other people; you might even look for excuses to touch them and be close to them, even to do something like tickle them
• When out on a date or with friends, you wish this/these family members were with you or you feel like you'd rather be home with them
• You're envious of their dates, especially if you think you'd treat your family member(s) better or they are dating beneath their status/quality
• The people you date or find most attractive resemble or remind people of your family member(s)
• You seem to be attracted to their friends (this, like previous one, can be seen as displacement)
• You want to want to hear about their dates/love life, whether from them or their partners (dating them vicariously)

These are just some signs, not an exhaustive checklist. If you don't recognize any of them in you, you might still have an attraction but if you do recognize any of those in you, especially combined with the erotic feelings and thoughts, then you likely have a serious attraction to your family members(s). The more you identify with these statements, the more likely you've uncovering the truth that you are attracted and you do want to have sex, or at least be romantic, with them.

Accept That You Are Attracted to Them


Does that worry, bother, or confuse you? As you no doubt know, and what may be troubling you, is that some people are completely averse to the thought of their family members, or, to be more precise, anyone raised together in the same home with them, as a sexual partner. That is because they are experiencing what is called the Westermarck Effect. However, not everybody raised together experiences this, or at least not strongly enough to suppress attractions to all in/from the home. People who weren't raised together don't experience this effect. And so while a taboo exists in many places when it comes to acting on these feelings, and many people at least partially internalize such prejudices, many people do act on them anyway.

What Do You Do Now?

Should you act on it? That depends a lot on your personal situation. This might help you decide.


Whether you pursue sex or a love life with another consenting adult should be entirely between you and that person. It is possible to have a mutual sexual attraction and to discuss having sex without actually doing it. There is no good reason why people shouldn't have their rights to such relationships, but you might personally decide it is best not to pursue a sexual relationship with a certain person. Sometimes, it is better to leave a fantasy as a fantasy.

"Why Am I Feeling This Way?"

Attractions can be complicated. You've seen people who have been head over heels in love with each other and you just don't get it, yourself, haven't you? Someone might tell you that you just need to get out more and meet other people. If you're young and inexperienced, they might be right. But on the flip side, maybe the reason you don't have other love interests is because you want this this person or these people more. There are also polyamorous or otherwise ethically nonmonogamous people who do have other love interests and sex partners and still have these desires for a consanguineous connection. It could be as simple as your crush being extremely attractive in general. Some studies indicate that most people are attracted to people who look like them.


You could be attracted to this person and that person just happens to be a relative. It is also possible that you have a consanguinamorous orientation, especially if people who aren't closely related seem to generate little spark for you.

A Note To Survivors of Abuse

Abuse victims do sometimes have these thoughts, but it isn't at all true that someone is only going to have these thoughts if they were abused. Quite the opposite can be true. Someone might have these sexual thoughts because this family member is so kind and loving, so protective and nurturing in contrast to the abuser. Also, it is possible for someone who was abused by one relative to have healthy feelings for another relative, just as someone who was abused by a supposed friend can have healthy feelings for a true friend.

See Jane's  Essay on Self-Realization
See Jane's Essay on Feelings of Guilt

See Also:

Consanguinamory FAQ
Let Dad Have His Fantasies
A Message to Family and Friends

You are also welcome to contact Keith at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com or on Facebook to discuss these topics further.

You can find others who've had the same feelings at Kindred Spirits.

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How should parents respond to 'emotional blackmail'? "If you don't give me alcohol, I'll get it from somewhere else and drink in a park!"

If you look at the latest secondary school student data, parents continue to be the most common source of alcohol amongst young people, with 37.9% of current drinkers aged 12-17 years reporting this to be the case. Friends (22%) and 'someone else' (19%) were the next most likely responses, with siblings (8.7%) and 'took it from home' (4.7%) being the least likely sources.

As I always say, what you do with your teen around drinking is completely your business and if you believe that providing them with alcohol is the right thing to do, whatever your reason, then all power to you! There are many parents who believe that giving their child a glass of alcohol with a meal in a family environment is the best way to teach 'responsible drinking'. The available evidence in this area does not necessarily support that view, but if that's what you believe and it feels right for your family - go for it! When it comes to giving a teen alcohol to take to a party on a Saturday night I believe there are far fewer parents who actually feel comfortable doing this ... regardless, many still do. Once again, it's your choice what you do here. As long as you don't impose your beliefs onto other parents, or criticise other families for having different values in this area, it is you who has to live with your decision and only you can judge whether your teen is able to handle adult behaviour like drinking in social settings.

So why do so many parents who don't want to give their teen a couple of drinks to take to a party end up actually doing it? Well, I believe in many cases it is simply a matter of 'emotional blackmail'.

I am constantly meeting parents who have been told by their teens that they are too strict as far as alcohol and parties are concerned and that if the rules don't change they will go behind their backs and find alcohol themselves and go and drink it in a dangerous place like a park, or that their inflexibility will result in them not going to them if something goes wrong. Unfortunately, as we move closer to the summer months and the number of parties and gatherings that adolescents start to be invited to increases, this type of emotional blackmail really starts to raise its ugly head! It's typically Year 10s (but I'm hearing it more and more from parents of Year 9s) and these clever teens are all trying their best to manipulate their poor parents by threatening them with the terrible things that could happen to them if they don't get what they want, i.e., permission to drink and/or for their parents to provide the alcohol to them.

I've shared the following email before but it's certainly worth re-visiting. It's from a mother who was grappling with this exact issue ...

"Our son has been to parties where 15- and 16-year-olds were drinking. He always told us that he didn’t drink and that he keeps an eye on his friends. We have always picked him up from the parties and never smelt any alcohol on him ... Last weekend my son said to me that his friend has told his parents that he had been drinking and they said they want him to come to them if he gets himself into trouble. Our son said that he wouldn't be able to come to us because we are so strict and inflexible and won't allow him to drink and he knows that there will be consequences should we catch him drinking. Now I am at a complete loss how to respond to this because we certainly want him to know that he can come to us with problems but how can we uphold our rules without him totally rebelling?"

When a parent finds themselves in this situation I suggest they try to answer the following questions as honestly as they can. Once they have they usually are able to work out what to do next ...

• What exactly is your child asking you for? The young man above is asking for a couple of things - he is certainly asking for more flexibility around the rules around alcohol and parties and is most probably asking for permission to drink when he attends these events
• Do you feel comfortable with allowing that to happen? This is where you have to 'follow your heart'. Do you feel ok with easing the rules a little around parties and do you feel comfortable with giving him permission to drink alcohol at 16? No-one can answer that question but you and your partner - no-one!
• If you don't feel comfortable, why not? This is incredibly important to think through and actually be able to articulate clearly. It really doesn't matter what the reasons are, as long as you have them clearly laid out (maybe even written down) and you can explain them to others (not just your child) should you be asked - not that you have to justify your parenting decisions to others, but it's always useful to have them on hand, just in case
• Have you explained your reasons clearly to your child? I always say in my presentations to parents that really the only reason you ever have to give to your child is "because I love you!", but really that's the answer you give when they don't like the rules you've laid out and you don't want to enter into a screaming match with them! When you are explaining the rules you certainly should be making it very clear why you've made the rules you have - simply saying "because I said so ..." is just not going to cut it!
• Are you being inflexible? This is a really difficult one for some parents - a 15- or 16-year-old is growing up and there does need to be some flexibility with rules. That doesn't mean you cave-in and give them what they want, basically you start to reward good behaviour ... If they have been going to parties regularly for 12 months and things have been going well, sit down with them and say something like ... "You've been wonderful. We're so proud of the way you've been behaving at parties, it's time to take another look at our rules". This is where curfews come in so handy, give them an extra 30 mins before you pick them up from a party. Never be frightened of asking them what changes they would like to the rules and see which of those you're happy to go with ...
• Most importantly, do you really believe that your child would actually do what they are threatening? Realistically, the kids that are going to get into real trouble here are not the ones who are going to ask their parents for permission to do this - they'll just go and do it behind their backs! If they're talking to you and asking for rule changes, that can be a really good sign. Don't ever believe that all that great work you've done over the past 15 or so years with your child is now worthless. If you have a positive relationship with your child (you've been an authoritative parent - rules, consequences bound in unconditional love), that's not going to change because of something like this. They may not like you very much but they'll still love you. However, if you are being inflexible and not listening to your teen's concerns things could go pear-shaped - but as I said before, that doesn't mean you give them what they want, it just means you may have to do a better job of explaining your actions!

Always remember that the one thing that most adolescents are brilliant at is the art of manipulation. Once again, I have told the following story before - it's about a mother who was being manipulated by her 15-year-old daughter to such an extent that it was almost abuse ...

The mother wanted my advice regarding her daughter, parties and the provision of alcohol. Her daughter had told her that all her friends drank alcohol, their parents provided this without question and that all of the parties she attended alcohol was at the very least tolerated and sometimes even provided. She also told her mother that she believed that they had a great relationship - she could tell her everything and she did, nothing was kept hidden, unlike other girls and their mothers she knew. Unfortunately for the girl, her mother did not feel comfortable about giving her alcohol to take to these parties and this was causing heated discussion at home. The daughter then informed the mother that if alcohol was not provided then she would have to resort to finding it elsewhere and going behind her back. This, she threatened, would mean the end of their open relationship.

When questioned the mother had not spoken to any of her daughter's friends' parents. She had not called one parent who had hosted a party her daughter had attended. Every bit of information she was using to make decisions was based on what her daughter told her. This 15-year-old had successfully 'siloed' her mother, ensuring that she spoke to no-one and found out nothing about what was really going on - she was feeding her the information she wanted her to hear. To top it off, she then threatened (there is no other word for it) her mother and told her that their 'wonderful' relationship would be jeopardised if she didn't get want she wanted. As I said to the mother at the time, this is not a positive relationship and some work needed to be done pretty quickly to fix it before it gets completely out of control.

I'm pretty sure we all used emotional blackmail to get what we wanted from our parents when we were teenagers (my mother still goes on at me about the grey Levi jeans that I had to have when I was 15 and how I told her that I would be totally ostracised from my entire year group if I didn't have them - the fear of social exclusion continues to work wonders with parents!). Today's teens are no different and, like us, they certainly know how to pull at Mum's or Dad's heartstrings.

Every parent has to make their own decision on how to move forward when their child resorts to this type of manipulation but the bottom line for me is always - whatever the decision, make sure you follow your heart and ensure you can live with the consequences should something go wrong. I have met too many parents who were bullied into making decisions and changing rules that they were not comfortable with and then either losing their child in tragic circumstances or finding themselves with a 15-year-old daughter who had been sexually assaulted or being called to a hospital after their 16-year-old son had been admitted due to alcohol poisoning or been a victim of violence. No matter what anyone tells you, giving them permission to drink or providing them the alcohol does not protect them from things going wrong!

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A Cruel Double Standard

I've considered adding another entry to the Discredited Arguments page, because I've heard and read people say that people in consanguinamorous relationships (or step or adoptive relationships that have gone romantic) don't need the freedom to marry because they're already family. In addition to being as senseless as telling a woman she can't marry her sister's husband's brother (which is legal and does happen) because they are already family, the statement can bring up a very cruel double standard.

In many situations involving Genetic Sexual Attraction, the lovers are not legally family for the purposes of insurance, benefits, taxes, hospital visitation, next of kin, etc. because they were adopted into or born into (via sperm, egg, or embryo donation) different families. Also, in many places, when a married woman gives birth, the child is legally her spouse's child as well. What if, due to sex with someone other than her spouse, the woman's child is genetically a half-sibling to another married couple's child, and as adults they decide they'd like to marry?

The double standard is that, while these genetically related people don't enjoy the benefits of being family, in places that still have ridiculous laws discriminating against consensual adult incest, they are considered family and thus can (and are) criminally prosecuted for consensual sex or at least denied their right to marry.

You're not family so you can't get the benefit of being family. You are family so you are going to be prosecuted for having loved each other in sexual way. That's cruel.

As an example, if something were to happen to Melissa and she ended up in a hospital, her adoptive parents could bar Matthew and Linda from even being by her side, let alone making decisions about her care, even though Matthew and Linda are, for practical purposes, her spouses. She would be married to them if she could, but the law isn't there yet.

Those who are sharing, or want to share their lives as spouses or partners often do need the same rights, benefits, and protections as any other spouses, and there’s no good reason to deny them their fundamental right to marry. Also, marriage automatically provides for next-of-kin status, which is especially important when there is some discord between at least one of the lovers and legal family members outside of the consanguinamorous relationship.

There are many cruel double standards when trying to tell other consenting adults how to love each other. GSA or not, consanguinamorous people need discriminatory laws to be done away with, and need access to the protections provided by marriage, if they want them. This is yet another reason we need full marriage equality sooner rather than later.

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Myth: I Don’t Know Anyone Who Has Experienced GSA

Reality: You might not know of them experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction, but chances are, there is someone in your life who has experienced GSA.

Think it through. Someone experiences reunion GSA in up to 50% of all introductions/reunions of close genetic relatives who were not raised together or by one another, provided the genders and sexual orientations are compatible. Think of all of the people in your extended family and circle of friends, your classmates, coworkers, neighbors, fellow members of clubs or religious congregations, and the people who regularly provide you with a service or are a regular customer of yours. You might not know it in every case, especially since people might want to keep these things private, but a few of them are adopted or gave a child up for adoption, a few were conceived by sperm or egg donation or provided sperm or egg donations, a few were separated from a parent (and often half siblings) due to divorce or breakup or the relationship being a fling, one night stand, or affair. So some of them have had a genetic parent, child, sibling, aunt, uncle, nephew, or niece from whom they were separated enough that if, and when, they were introduced or reunited post-puberty, someone experienced GSA.

Just because one person experiences GSA doesn’t mean it is reciprocal. Even if reciprocated, it might not lead to consanguinamory. Even if it leads to consanguinamory, you might not find out about it.

There are certainly famous people you know of, perhaps even admire, who have experienced GSA.

The mobility of human beings has increased dramatically with transportation innovations, systems, and affordability. Gamete and embryo donations have become an increasingly common reality. Those things have meant more people maturing separated from close genetic relatives. Social networking is bringing people together, as is the same increased mobility that had them apart. These things mean more people experiencing GSA.

Since GSA almost always involves some pain (even if only due to external prejudice), people who experience it need compassion, not condemnation.

If you know or think it is possible that someone specific in your life has dealt with GSA, this might be of some help.

Even if you don't personally know anyone who has experienced GSA, shouldn't all adults have their rights when it comes to their relationships?

See Myth: People in GSA Relationships Don’t Need the Freedom to Marry

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A Note to Readers and Contacts

Thank you for visiting the blog, and a special thanks to all of you have have left comments and even more so to those of you who've reached out and connected via email, Twitter, Facebook, or Tumblr.

This blog is a labor of love. It is not how I earn my living. Also, there are a very few of us bloggers but so many of you in the community. As such, even though I count so many of you as friends, sometimes I can't initiate conversations or keep conversations going. Please don't take it personally. It would help a great deal if you'd send me messages to let me know how you are doing, because I do care. And if you're a reader who has never contacted me, you're also encouraged to write to me.

Anyone can write me at either of these email addresses:

fullmarriageequality at Protonmail dot com

fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com

Thank you! I hope to hear from you soon with an update on how you are, or something you want to run by me, or with your suggestions or success reports... really, with anything.

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Myth: People in GSA Relationships Don’t Need the Freedom to Marry

Reality: Some people in Genetic Sexual Attraction relationships need and want the freedom to marry, and there is no good reason for them to be denied their right to marry if they’re consenting adults.

Because people experiencing GSA are close genetic relatives, some people argue that they don’t need their right to marry because they’re already family. However, they might not be considered family under the law, although in a loathsome double-standard, they may still be subject to discriminatory laws based on their genetic relation.

Those who are already sharing their lives as spouses, or want to, often do need the same rights, benefits, and protections as any other spouses. Also, marriage automatically provides for next-of-kin status, which is especially important when there is some discord between the lovers and others who are legally recognized as family. For example, if brothers Adam and Steve have been living as spouses for years and Steve winds up in a coma in the hospital, Steve’s estranged, bigoted, adoptive parents would likely be able to usurp Adam’s rights to make decisions.

An adult should be free to marry any and all consenting adults.

See Myth: Acting on GSA Needs to be Criminalized, Prosecuted, and Stopped

See Myth: I Don’t Know Anyone Who Has Experienced GSA

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