Here's a new blog written by a woman in a Genetic Sexual Attraction relationship with her father.
Also, Jane has updated her blog with an entry about being on the consanguinamory spectrum in orientation but being in a "regular" relationship.
Monday, September 3, 2018
A New GSA Blog and Jane's Latest
Here's a new blog written by a woman in a Genetic Sexual Attraction relationship with her father.
Also, Jane has updated her blog with an entry about being on the consanguinamory spectrum in orientation but being in a "regular" relationship.
Sunday, September 2, 2018
Polygamy and Public Assistance
*****
Q: I would like more explanation of what the polygamist mindset is like, because to mono people it is so hard to understand. For example. As a mono person all I can imagine is that there is one guy who is fathering 20 or more children and the state ends up providing everything for the family because they can't manage on their own. I don't think that it is right for the state or taxpayers to have to take care of all the children that are born into these families. These so called families are just lazy and want a free ride from the rest of us.
A: That is a very good question. And I am so glad that you brought that up. The fact of the matter is that it is really easy to think that one man is going to have so many children and not be able to take care of them. In today's society we hear a lot about unwed mothers who have a lot of children in order to collect state benefits. But the truth is that polygamists believe in families. Polygamists are family oriented and not oriented toward the single lifestyle. Due to that fact and the fact that polygamy is illegal, most polygamists have learned to be self sufficient and rely on themselves for their needs. Just look at the TV show "Sister Wives." The husband and some of the wives have real jobs that they go to. But they also started their very own business. It is called My Sister Wife's Closet. I know of polygamist families that have started their own restaurants. One of which is centered around polygamy so that people can take a trip and experience what its like in that community.
As for myself, I have done so many things to ensure that my children and way of life is preserved. I bought my own home and land. I own it completely. I don't pay a mortgage or anything else. I even buy my cars outright. So by buying my own property, homes, vehicles and everything else, I am not in debt. Everything that I bring in is free and clear. Most people today are living paycheck to paycheck and can barely afford the rent or mortgage that they have. I don't have that problem. Also, what is great about owning land is that I can always grow the food that I need for my family. We produce so much food that we give food away to others in need.
I always knew that I wanted to have a big family. Because of that, I took the time to think about my life and what I needed to do to provide for them. I can't speak for all polygamists, but for the ones that I do know, they all understand that in order to have big families that they will need to work hard and do whatever they need to do to ensure that their families succeed in life.
The fact is that there are many people out there in the world that do try and take advantage of the system and get what they can from it. But most polygamists aren't that way and will do whatever they need to in order to survive so they don't bring more attention to them then they already have. But in the end, if there are people who need a helping hand in life because they have fallen on hard times, then what's the problem with us being good neighbors and helping them to the best of our abilities?
Let me ask you something. Have you ever thought about what a man has to do in order for a woman to want to marry him? The man has to show the woman that he can provide for her and the family. And have you ever thought about what a woman has to do in order to choose a man to marry? She has to think long and hard about whether or not the man can provide for her. What woman would want to marry a man that was a bum? Not many, I can tell you that. Now imagine what it's like for one man to show four women that he can provide for them.
But in the end, the men and the women understand that they all need to provide for their families, not just the man. What I mean is that the women understand that they need to take an active part in doing what is needed for their family to survive, also. I know some wives work, not because the man doesn't make enough money but because they want to take some of the burden away from the man so that they can all have more quality time together. No wife and children would be happy if the husband and father was never home because he was gone all the time working. I know of polygamist families where the man had lost his job and the wives had to go to work because the man couldn't find work. The whole family pitches in. That's what love is all about.
The polygamist family works as a team to ensure that the needs of the family are met. No matter what the needs are or what they have to do.
*****
People are increasingly realizing the advantages of determining their own roles and making mutual agreements with their partner(s) rather than trying to conform to "traditional" gender roles and hetero-monogamist constructs to which they're not suited. There will always be some families that are polygynist and in which the husband will be the highest earner. But there are many other families where this is not the case, and families in which the adults are all men or all women, or with multiple men and one woman, or multiple men and multiple women. They can determine for themselves who will earn income and who will be with the children when. Some of them will have home-based businesses.
What is the current system in the US when it comes to welfare benefits? A polygynist man can only have one lawful wife. So, he's legally married to none or just one of his wives. In the US, if a mother isn't legally married, she is more likely to qualify for public assistance. Allowing all adults to marry any and all consenting adults would make it more likely these women would be legally married, making it less likely they will qualify for public assistance. It seems to me that the argument asking "Aren't polygamists a drain on public assistance?" is actually an argument for legalization of polyamorist or polygamist or plural marriage.
*****
People are increasingly realizing the advantages of determining their own roles and making mutual agreements with their partner(s) rather than trying to conform to "traditional" gender roles and hetero-monogamist constructs to which they're not suited. There will always be some families that are polygynist and in which the husband will be the highest earner. But there are many other families where this is not the case, and families in which the adults are all men or all women, or with multiple men and one woman, or multiple men and multiple women. They can determine for themselves who will earn income and who will be with the children when. Some of them will have home-based businesses.
What is the current system in the US when it comes to welfare benefits? A polygynist man can only have one lawful wife. So, he's legally married to none or just one of his wives. In the US, if a mother isn't legally married, she is more likely to qualify for public assistance. Allowing all adults to marry any and all consenting adults would make it more likely these women would be legally married, making it less likely they will qualify for public assistance. It seems to me that the argument asking "Aren't polygamists a drain on public assistance?" is actually an argument for legalization of polyamorist or polygamist or plural marriage.
Wednesday, August 29, 2018
Let's Break the Silence and Bring People Out of the Shadows and Closets
One definition of "taboo" is "a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice."
That means it is possible for many people to be doing something and still have it "taboo" in the sense that nobody talks about it, at least not openly or publicly. The problem with not talking about things is that such silence can lead to serious negative consequences.
Thanks to technology, people can search out information about something without having to ask someone they live with or next to, or a teacher.
Want to know the most popular entry for this blog?
It's not even close.
The most popular entry on this blog, by far, is the entry addressing a frequently asked question of "How Common is Consensual Incest (Consanguinamory)? People from all over the world, but especially North America, Europe, India, and Australia, use search engines to answer the question, and those searches bring them here. The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post more translated entries?)
Before going further, let’s make it clear this entry is talking about sex or sex-play or exploration that is consensual (we’ll call it Category S), not anything involving assault, molestation, or coercion (Category X). We shouldn’t have to reiterate that “sex” means consensual, but unfortunately we still do. (It’s not sex if it isn’t consensual, it is assault.)
The volume of searches and visits can't be accounted for solely by curiosity and journalistic or academic research. Some of that volume is from people who are, were, or want to be involved, or think or are certain someone they know is, perhaps even their partner. We know this because of the comments they leave and the messages they send, and all of the other entries they visit after coming to the blog through their initial question.
Based just on searches that invoke the question and other searches that find this blog*, there are a lot of people who have been involved, are involved, or want to be involved sexually or romantically, or want to be married to, someone law or custom forbids as too close of a relative. Yes, some people are completely disgusted by the thought, but clearly there are many who aren't. And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault. Even if person A is disgusted by the thought persons B and C having sex, or doesn't understand why these people are involved, persons B and C should be free to be together how they mutually agree.
Some people involved are extremely cautious about reaching out, fearing that they will be discovered by law enforcement, family, a current partner, or an ex with whom they have a child custody dispute, or an employer or client or customers or neighbors who harbor prejudice against people in such relationships. After all, there have been a lot of recent bus sightings. Some of the people who do reach out are highly accomplished, successful, educated, and intelligent people. It's cruel and pointless to compel them to hide (at least some aspects of) a loving relationship with another consenting adult. There is no good reason they should be denied their rights.
There are people who don’t recognize (or admit to themselves) that they have been involved. When some people hear or read the word “incest” they think of Category X. If that didn’t happen to them, they might say they’ve never been involved in incest, not thinking of, say, the time they and a sibling masturbated in front of each other as incest, or even if they've engaged in oral sex with an aunt or uncle close in age to them, or heard/saw their parent(s) having sex were somewhat aroused by it. While first cousins can legally marry in many places, there are still some places that criminalize sex between first cousins, and so involvement with a cousin is considered "incest" as is, in some places and circumstances, involvement with a step relation.
What else could fall under Category S? The people who are hurt most by prejudice against consanguinamory are people who are living as spouses already and are married in every sense of the word except by law, who are not only denied their right to legally marry, but in many places, can lose everything and be imprisoned (or even executed) if outed. However, it doesn’t have to be a lifelong spousal relationship to fall under Category S. It could be exploration during adolescence, a fling during adulthood, a sibling-with-benefits arrangement, asexual but romantic dates, or relieving the frustration of an family member who is injured or disabled and unable (even if temporarily) to do it themselves.
The conditions that bring about reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction have increased, and so there are more situations involving GSA, and many of those situations lead to some sexual involvement.
Some of the most popular themes of erotica and porn are considered incestuous, and while someone’s tastes in such material may be entirely based on a fantasy they’d never pursue in real life (for example, people who don’t have siblings or aren’t attracted to their sibling who enjoy erotica involving siblings), there is clearly not only much involvement, but much interest as well. Although, it should be noted that fantasy media is often very different from how things are in reality, and that applies to porn with these themes, too.
As long as we’re talking consensual interaction, it shouldn’t matter if it is experimentation, recreation, or passionate, bonding lovemaking, or in the context of a lifelong romance or a one night hookup; it shouldn’t be illegal anywhere and it shouldn't have be kept a secret. It is happening, and it always has, and nobody needs to be harmed as a result.
Here's what I hope people take away from this entry:
1. If you've had these relationships, experiences, desires, or fantasies, you're not alone, and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with you. There is help. Also, you are welcome here. We support your rights.
2. Laws and stigmas against these relationships, experiences, desires, and fantasies need to be done away with and replaced with protection of rights, and people need to be able to talk about these matters. Even if you haven't been involved, you know someone who has, so please be an ally.
3. There can and should be be fair and compelling media portrayals of these subjects, both in nonfiction and fiction, in drama and comedy. The subject has always been in our stories, from Greek mythology to The Bible to Game of Thrones to the antics of various reality television performers.
4. Serious academic research into these subjects should be encouraged rather than discouraged.
5. Therapists, counselors, social workers, and medical professionals interacting with people who have these involvements should accept and reinforce that such desires, experiences, and relationships are not inherently problematic (some do, all should).
*Here are just some actual search terms that brought people to this blog recently. There are many variations of these that are somewhat redundant, too, and these search terms have all been used many times...
That means it is possible for many people to be doing something and still have it "taboo" in the sense that nobody talks about it, at least not openly or publicly. The problem with not talking about things is that such silence can lead to serious negative consequences.
Thanks to technology, people can search out information about something without having to ask someone they live with or next to, or a teacher.
Want to know the most popular entry for this blog?
It's not even close.
The most popular entry on this blog, by far, is the entry addressing a frequently asked question of "How Common is Consensual Incest (Consanguinamory)? People from all over the world, but especially North America, Europe, India, and Australia, use search engines to answer the question, and those searches bring them here. The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post more translated entries?)
Before going further, let’s make it clear this entry is talking about sex or sex-play or exploration that is consensual (we’ll call it Category S), not anything involving assault, molestation, or coercion (Category X). We shouldn’t have to reiterate that “sex” means consensual, but unfortunately we still do. (It’s not sex if it isn’t consensual, it is assault.)
The volume of searches and visits can't be accounted for solely by curiosity and journalistic or academic research. Some of that volume is from people who are, were, or want to be involved, or think or are certain someone they know is, perhaps even their partner. We know this because of the comments they leave and the messages they send, and all of the other entries they visit after coming to the blog through their initial question.
Based just on searches that invoke the question and other searches that find this blog*, there are a lot of people who have been involved, are involved, or want to be involved sexually or romantically, or want to be married to, someone law or custom forbids as too close of a relative. Yes, some people are completely disgusted by the thought, but clearly there are many who aren't. And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault. Even if person A is disgusted by the thought persons B and C having sex, or doesn't understand why these people are involved, persons B and C should be free to be together how they mutually agree.
Some people involved are extremely cautious about reaching out, fearing that they will be discovered by law enforcement, family, a current partner, or an ex with whom they have a child custody dispute, or an employer or client or customers or neighbors who harbor prejudice against people in such relationships. After all, there have been a lot of recent bus sightings. Some of the people who do reach out are highly accomplished, successful, educated, and intelligent people. It's cruel and pointless to compel them to hide (at least some aspects of) a loving relationship with another consenting adult. There is no good reason they should be denied their rights.
There are people who don’t recognize (or admit to themselves) that they have been involved. When some people hear or read the word “incest” they think of Category X. If that didn’t happen to them, they might say they’ve never been involved in incest, not thinking of, say, the time they and a sibling masturbated in front of each other as incest, or even if they've engaged in oral sex with an aunt or uncle close in age to them, or heard/saw their parent(s) having sex were somewhat aroused by it. While first cousins can legally marry in many places, there are still some places that criminalize sex between first cousins, and so involvement with a cousin is considered "incest" as is, in some places and circumstances, involvement with a step relation.
What else could fall under Category S? The people who are hurt most by prejudice against consanguinamory are people who are living as spouses already and are married in every sense of the word except by law, who are not only denied their right to legally marry, but in many places, can lose everything and be imprisoned (or even executed) if outed. However, it doesn’t have to be a lifelong spousal relationship to fall under Category S. It could be exploration during adolescence, a fling during adulthood, a sibling-with-benefits arrangement, asexual but romantic dates, or relieving the frustration of an family member who is injured or disabled and unable (even if temporarily) to do it themselves.
The conditions that bring about reunion Genetic Sexual Attraction have increased, and so there are more situations involving GSA, and many of those situations lead to some sexual involvement.
Some of the most popular themes of erotica and porn are considered incestuous, and while someone’s tastes in such material may be entirely based on a fantasy they’d never pursue in real life (for example, people who don’t have siblings or aren’t attracted to their sibling who enjoy erotica involving siblings), there is clearly not only much involvement, but much interest as well. Although, it should be noted that fantasy media is often very different from how things are in reality, and that applies to porn with these themes, too.
As long as we’re talking consensual interaction, it shouldn’t matter if it is experimentation, recreation, or passionate, bonding lovemaking, or in the context of a lifelong romance or a one night hookup; it shouldn’t be illegal anywhere and it shouldn't have be kept a secret. It is happening, and it always has, and nobody needs to be harmed as a result.
Here's what I hope people take away from this entry:
1. If you've had these relationships, experiences, desires, or fantasies, you're not alone, and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with you. There is help. Also, you are welcome here. We support your rights.
2. Laws and stigmas against these relationships, experiences, desires, and fantasies need to be done away with and replaced with protection of rights, and people need to be able to talk about these matters. Even if you haven't been involved, you know someone who has, so please be an ally.
3. There can and should be be fair and compelling media portrayals of these subjects, both in nonfiction and fiction, in drama and comedy. The subject has always been in our stories, from Greek mythology to The Bible to Game of Thrones to the antics of various reality television performers.
4. Serious academic research into these subjects should be encouraged rather than discouraged.
5. Therapists, counselors, social workers, and medical professionals interacting with people who have these involvements should accept and reinforce that such desires, experiences, and relationships are not inherently problematic (some do, all should).
*Here are just some actual search terms that brought people to this blog recently. There are many variations of these that are somewhat redundant, too, and these search terms have all been used many times...
sibling sex
incestuous marriage
is incest normal
can i marry my sister
how common is sibling intercourse
mother son incest
sibling incest
sibling marriage
can brother and sister marry
can siblings marry
is it legal to marry your sibling
is it illegal to marry your sibling
can you marry your sister
can i marry my brother
mother daughter sex
sex between siblings
can a brother and sister marry
where is incest legal
can siblings get married
aunt and nephew relationships
can you marry your sibling
can you marry your brother
marriage between brother and sister
can brother and sisters get married
mother son marriage
sibling marriage laws
is it illegal to marry your sister
can brother and sister get married
is it legal to marry your sister
can two brothers get married
is it legal to marry your brother
marrying siblings
can half siblings marry
states where you can marry your sister
can brother marry sister
sibling sex relationships
is it illegal to marry your brother
i want to marry my sister
marriage between siblings
incest mother son
is it legal for siblings to marry
brother and sister marriage laws
marrying your sister
is it normal for siblings to experiment
is incest a crime
positive incest experiences
consensual mother son incest
is it illegal to date your sibling
half siblings marriage
why is sibling marriage illegal
mom son marriage
sibling couples
sexual relations between siblings
is it common for siblings to experiment sexually
mother son couple
why is it illegal to marry a sibling
mom son couple
where can you marry your sister
what percentage of siblings have sex
experiences with adult sibling sex
Clearing Up Consanguinity
Many people get confused about terms like "second cousins" and "once removed" when referring to close but not-so-close relations. Your parent's sibling's child is your first cousin. That person's child would be your first cousin, once removed. That person's child and your child would be second cousins.
Here's a helpful chart that can help explain it.
Source: http://www.sanantonio.gov/atty/ethics/ConsanguinityChart.htm
Remember, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with, dating, or even marrying a cousin. Consanguineous relationships and marriages are nothing new. There are some countries and a little over half of US states where the bigotry against marriage equality extends to preventing first cousins from marrying, but there are many places where marrying a first cousin is legal and common. I'm only aware of a few US states where sex between first cousins is technically illegal, so check the laws of your state if you are concerned. It should be searchable on your official state website.
Read More »
Here's a helpful chart that can help explain it.
Source: http://www.sanantonio.gov/atty/ethics/ConsanguinityChart.htm
Remember, there's nothing wrong with experimenting with, dating, or even marrying a cousin. Consanguineous relationships and marriages are nothing new. There are some countries and a little over half of US states where the bigotry against marriage equality extends to preventing first cousins from marrying, but there are many places where marrying a first cousin is legal and common. I'm only aware of a few US states where sex between first cousins is technically illegal, so check the laws of your state if you are concerned. It should be searchable on your official state website.
Tuesday, August 28, 2018
NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11
“It will be a legal/paperwork nightmare as our system is set up for couples.” That’s what the bigots said about same-gender marriage and the Americans With Disabilities Act and just about any civil rights laws. Of course it is easier for those who already have what they want to keep things as they are. But what about all of the people who are denied their rights?
Adopting the polygamous freedom to marry under full marriage equality will take much less adjustment than adopting the Americans With Disabilities Act, the Violence Against Women Act and many other laws necessary to for equal protection and civil rights. Contract and business law already provides adaptable examples of how law can accommodate configurations involving three or more people, including when someone joins an existing relationship or leaves a relationship.
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #12
Sunday, August 26, 2018
Women’s Equality Day in US
It’s Women’s Equality Day in the US: http://www.nwhp.org/resources/commemorations/womens-equality-day/10-ideas-for-womens-equality-day/
In that spirit we note that women, regardless of sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Read More »
In that spirit we note that women, regardless of sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Saturday, August 25, 2018
GSA and Stepping Out
Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA) can prompt cheating in relationships that otherwise would never have cheating. So if you’re reading this because you’ve cheated on a partner with your GSA contact, or because your partner may have cheated on you with their GSA contact, please keep that in mind. (You also might want to read this entry as well if you think you're being cheated on or are about to be.)
This blog endorses ethical nonmonogamy as no less valid and respectful than monogamy. Your blogger is polyamorous himself, but supports the rights of adults regardless of his own personal orientation and interests, including people who want monogamy.
This blog does not endorse cheating on a sexual, romantic, or spousal partner (which can happen in monogamous or polyamorous relationships), but also doesn’t endorse criminal punishment for cheating.
I don’t consider cheating to be egregious when it is to get some relief from a spouse or partner who has seriously broken vows or agreements by being abusive, neglectful, etc. Ideally, people would leave relationships in which they are being neglected or rejected, but that isn’t always possible or the best solution for a variety of reasons.
Relationships, especially marriages, can be very complicated. For example, it is easy for outsiders to see a married woman flirting with someone behind her husband’s back, and think less of her for doing so, but what those outsiders don’t see is that her husband barely interacts with her in private and refuses to even touch her and yet he wants her to go without affection and intimacy with others. Not wanting to break up the home of her young children before they are grown, she stays, and seeks comfort with others. Of course this kind of relationship situation happens regardless of genders.
In general, someone who is happy in a healthy relationship and is not deficient in their self-control will not cheat. However, when it comes to Genetic Sexual Attraction, someone who is in a happy relationship or would otherwise never cheat (not with a coworker, not with a neighbor, not with a former partner, not with anyone) may not withstand the dynamics involved, and may cheat as a result. If their relationship was already terminally ill, or experiencing serious problems, then keeping mutual GSA nonsexual is that much less likely.
GSA is usually overwhelming, and bonds formed in its caldera can become especially strong.
Is it possible for an existing relationship to withstand cheating initiated through GSA? Yes, if it is a strong one, and if the participants are willing to endure great difficulty.
The extra disadvantage GSA-based cheating adds to healing a relationship is that it is especially difficult to sever any of the bonds someone forms with their GSA partner(s). Whereas one response to cheating is to sever all contact with the person with whom one has cheated, reunited genetic relatives might find that approach unthinkable. So even if the sexual interaction ceases, which in itself can be extremely difficult to manage, a strong desire to be together may still present interference to other relationships.
Conversely the advantage is that, unless there are other genetic relatives who fit the required profile (gender, sexual orientation, etc.), the cheating partner who’d never cheated before isn’t likely to cheat anew with someone else, like you might see with someone who established a pattern of cheating with coworkers, who is willing to break it off with one coworker when caught, but may take up with another coworker after a little while.
If someone was already a cheater, there probably isn’t much hope for the relationship if GSA brings another cheating situation to the mix.
As with any cheating situation, for the prior relationship to survive in a healthy way, the partner who has been cheated on must either be ignorant of the situation or very understanding. Unfortunately, the stigma against consanguineous sex may preempt the offended partner’s willingness to move forward with the relationship, even if they would have done so had the affair been with an unrelated acquaintance. There are a few people, such as some subset of incest fetishists, who would find news of their partner acting on GSA to be arousing, and others who are very accommodating or understanding, but many people, even many who have supported their partner being polyamorous, are going to find consanguinamory on the part of their partner to be unacceptable, even if for no other reason than realizing the consanguinamorous bond could continue to be stronger than the one they have.
If it helps the hurt partner, they should know that if their cheating partner was not a cheater before, a GSA affair is not likely to signal that their partner will subsequently cheat with others.
GSA can and usually will bring upheaval to the life of those who experience it and their loved ones. That is especially so for any existing partner relationships. Being 1) introduced to a genetic sibling you didn’t know existed, or 2) reunited with a child you gave up for adoption, now a grown adult, or 3) even feeling very attracted to someone and later finding out you are close genetic relatives would be a major twist to life’s journey in and of itself (and those are just some of the GSA scenarios). Adding a strong unrequited attraction to the first two is even more to deal with, and mutual attraction, especially with erotic encounters resulting, is more still.
Compassion is needed all around.
Here are Jane's thoughts at the Consanguinamory blog addressing cheating and consanguineous relationships.
Here are Jane's thoughts at the Consanguinamory blog addressing cheating and consanguineous relationships.
Friday, August 24, 2018
NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10
“Polyamory/polygamy spreads sexually transmitted infections.” Unprotected sex with someone who is infected is how such infections may be transmitted. Twenty people could have group sex and a group marriage for fifty years and if none of them brings an infection into the marriage and they only have sex with each other, none of them will get a sexually transmitted infection.
We do not deny people their freedom to marry based on which diseases they have. In most places, people can legally have sex with multiple partners anyway. Polyfidelity can be encouraged if polygamy is legalized and polyamory is no longer stigmatized, which would actually reduce disease transmission. Polyamorous people tend to be more careful about prevention, safer sex, and actually talking about the issues involved.
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11
Wednesday, August 22, 2018
Involved Stepfamily Wanted for Television Show
Someone wants to get you onto television. This is what they say...
*****
A TV production company is looking for a couple who are in a relationship and are also step-family, for a series about unusual relationships.
The show is very positive, and non-judgemental. The message throughout is very much is 'love is love.’
If you think you’d be interested in appearing (face identified), please contact
charley.sutton@barcroftmedia.com.
Thanks!
*****
As I frequently do, I'll remind you that there are certain risks involved (notice your face will be appearing) and someone else will control how you're portrayed. But visibility is important. People who are steprelations should be free to be together how they mutually agree without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. And yes, in some places, it is illegal for certain steprelatives to be together. It's ridiculous, but true.
There are stepsiblings who are together. There are adults out there who are with their stepmother or stepfather. But will any of you take this opportunity assist with a television show?
Monday, August 20, 2018
Yes, It Happens
An anonymous question with doubt about it being a thing that young adults approach a parent for a first experience was answered at this blog's sister Tumblr.
Read More »
NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9
“They’re abusive.” Interracial, (adult) intergenerational, same-gender, polyamorous, and consanguinamorous relationships are not inherently abusive. It is the abusive relationships in general that are more likely to make news, or come to the attention of therapists or law enforcement. There are many people in "forbidden" relationships that are lasting, happy, healthy relationships.
Abusive people are the cause of abuse, not a relationship or marriage. There are many same-age, same-race, heterosexual, monogamous, nonconsanguineous relationships and marriages in which someone is abused. We have several examples showing that outlawing consensual behavior correlates to an increase in problems as people try to avoid law enforcement and other authorities. Marriage equality will most certainly reduce abuse, as abuse victims can go to the authorities with much less fear. So the solution isn’t the status quo, it is in bringing the relationships out of the shadows, allowing them to be protected and made official, and prosecuting abusers. Abuse victims will be much more forthcoming.
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #8
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10
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Abusive people are the cause of abuse, not a relationship or marriage. There are many same-age, same-race, heterosexual, monogamous, nonconsanguineous relationships and marriages in which someone is abused. We have several examples showing that outlawing consensual behavior correlates to an increase in problems as people try to avoid law enforcement and other authorities. Marriage equality will most certainly reduce abuse, as abuse victims can go to the authorities with much less fear. So the solution isn’t the status quo, it is in bringing the relationships out of the shadows, allowing them to be protected and made official, and prosecuting abusers. Abuse victims will be much more forthcoming.
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #8
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10
Sunday, August 19, 2018
Discovering Consanguinamory in the Family Tree
Family Tree Concerns..?This was my answer, which was chosen as the best answer (thankyouverymuch)...
My Grandfather recently passed away and my Grandmother told us all that her and my Grandfather were never married, they had always celebrated an anniversary (or so we thought,) but didn't understand while she waited till he died before telling us. After further research into my family tree I have discovered that my Grandmother married her Uncle (is this incest!?!), my Mother feels all weird because it feels like her life has been a lie and the only person she could have asked and got a proper answer was her Dad but now he's gone so we are both just looking for some advice or if anyone has been or is going through a similar situation...
= = = =
Here's what matters: Was your grandfather a good person? A good spouse to your Grandmother? A good parent? A good grandparent? THAT is what matters, not any genetic or legal relation to your grandmother. There's no lie about any of that. Your mother's life is no different now than it was before she knew that information. She's just allowing cultural prejudices to influence her reaction. Your grandparents had what is called a common-law marriage. As long as they were good to each other, that is what matters.
You didn't make it clear, but it appears you mean your grandfather was the brother of one of your grandmother's parents (he would still be an "uncle" to her if he had, at one time, been married to one of your grandmother's parents' sisters without any biological relation to your grandmother). Assuming there was a genetic connection (though it is possible he had been adopted into the family, too), that is still no reason for alarm. This is much more common than people think. People are finding out about this through DNA testing and family records, although family records don't always reveal the truth. If you go back further, it is virtually guaranteed you'll find you have consanguineous ancestors.
You don't have to go too far back in anyone's family tree to find these kinds of things. I doubt there is a person out there whose ancestry has nothing like this.
In other words.... you and your family are as normal as everyone else.
= = =
Just about everyone has incestuous childbearing in their family tree. In some cases, someone was raped, which of course is a horrible, or there was cheating. In other cases, it was true love between people who were not cheating on anyone. If the law prevented them from legally marrying or from telling the truth, that is a problem, a terrible problem, of the law, and just one of many reasons we need full marriage equality. It is not something wrong with the lovers.
Friday, August 17, 2018
Who Can Help With GSA in Europe?
A desperate comment was left after this entry on this blog:
"Keith, do you have any idea how or where in Europe can I come in contact with some licensed expert to attest to my defense in a pending case in front a jury? on the GSA condition? as I can not use a mail address please PUT IT HERE. RATHER URGENT. thank you"
It's sad this kind of thing is still an issue. I get private messages and emails with similar urgency.
If anyone reading this knows of someone, please speak up or get in contact.
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"Keith, do you have any idea how or where in Europe can I come in contact with some licensed expert to attest to my defense in a pending case in front a jury? on the GSA condition? as I can not use a mail address please PUT IT HERE. RATHER URGENT. thank you"
It's sad this kind of thing is still an issue. I get private messages and emails with similar urgency.
If anyone reading this knows of someone, please speak up or get in contact.
Wednesday, August 15, 2018
NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #8
“Polyamorous and consanguineous marriages are not the same thing as same-gender marriage.” So what? We’re talking about consenting adults who want to be together, and there’s no good reason to stop them. Some same-gender relationships and marriages are polygamous and/or consanguineous. A man should not only be able to marry another man, but two or more other men or his brother.
Strictly speaking, whether a marriage is same-gender or heterosexual isa different category than whether it is monogamous or polygamous; or exogamous or interracial, endogamous, or consanguineous. Some heterosexual marriages are monogamous, some are polygamous. Some same-gender marriages are monogamous, some are polygamous. Bisexuals may be in monogamous marriages or polygamous marriages. Some monogamous marriages are consanguineous, some aren’t. That monogamous/polygamous and exogamous/endogamous/consanguineous are different categories from heterosexual/same-gender is not a justification to deny the freedom to marry to consenting adults, or deny them marriage equality. Relationship rights belong to all adults.
It should be noted that when there is a polyamorous relationship, whether a "V" or a triad or more, at least two of the people involved are the same gender, even if they are no more than metamours to each other.
Something does not have to be immutable or inborn, like sexual orientation, to be legal. However, there are people (especially with Genetic Sexual Attraction) who are in consanguineous relationships who would swear to you that they couldn’t love anyone as much as they love their partner(s). They were born into their situations. There are people who are obviously unable to be monogamous, to the point of being willing to suffer loss of job, loss of reputation, loss of wealth, and figurative and literal loss of life, and they should not promise monogamy nor be pressured to pretend to be monogamous.
Some people simply arepolyamorous.
That these other categories are not the same thing as same-gender marriage does not explain why there are still laws against them or a lack of relationship protections in the law.
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #7
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9
Tuesday, August 14, 2018
Hiding in Plain Sight
There is no good reason people in these relationships should be criminalized or otherwise discriminated against. The prejudice against these relationships hurts people and causes problems.
Read for yourself what this woman has to say. Names have been changed to protect those involved...
*****
We've had to hide in plain sight for a long time.
My parents were married in the early 1980s after being together for a very short time. My dad failed to inform my mother that he had a son, John, from a previous wife, and daughter, Mary, from an affair.
John was a handful and his mother placed him in a boarding school. My mother, newly married, could not imagine willingly placing a child in an institution. She convinced my dad to go get him and for the next three years, they worked to mold him. Things were not meant to be. My brother struggled with addiction and tried different avenues of employment to fight his demons.
He got married, then joined the military to support his pregnant wife.
I was born when John was 19. I had no memory of him except pictures and my mother's stories.
I did see him in the mid 1990s when he visited. I was still a very young girl, and saw him again in 2000 when he helped us move.
My mother died of cancer when I was still a minor. I'd write to John. We got to be friends. No one really knew my mom so it was nice to be able to talk to someone who did. Our letters were never sexual or anything like that. We just wrote back and forth. He would try to counsel me, which at times, was condescending to my 16-year-old self.
At 18, I got pregnant with my son right after high school graduation with a boy who took no responsibility. I moved in with my dad. John came to love with us. He loved my son the moment he laid eyes on him. He would play with him and watch him whenever I needed a sitter. My brother and I became great friends.
In 2010, we had a very in-depth conversation and we just kissed. It did not feel wrong. If anything, a very strong attraction developed. This secret affair took place for the next few months with no one the wiser.
We rented a place to get away from my suspicious family. John's adult sons moved in with us. They were taken aback by the relationship but they were happy for us. Or at least that's what they said. They ended up moving back out of state after a natural disaster nearly killed them.
I became pregnant with my second son, who has ocular albinism. He also has a rare benign tumor disorder.
Our entire family on both sides know. Mary, our half sister, won't talk to us. It's too weird for her. As for the rest of our family, they couldn't care less.
We keep each other out of trouble. I love him as much now as when we first connected in 2010. We purchased a home, three cars, have taken multiple vacations, have four dogs and have two steady jobs, and are raising two wonderful kids. Very few people know the truth about us. We don't want our kids taken away. We are good, kind, solid people but we are involved in a very old taboo relationship. I swear we are soulmates.
*****
It's good to have supportive family and friends.
If you want to read more about the issues of consanguineous lovers having children, read this.
There are millions of others "hiding in plain sight." You know some, whether you know it or not.
We wish Anonymous and John well on their relationship and hope they'll keep us updated.
*****
It's good to have supportive family and friends.
If you want to read more about the issues of consanguineous lovers having children, read this.
There are millions of others "hiding in plain sight." You know some, whether you know it or not.
We wish Anonymous and John well on their relationship and hope they'll keep us updated.
Do These Relationships Work?
"do incest relationships work"
To answer that, one must describe what means for a relationship to "work."
For some people, a relationship only "works" if it is heterosexual and always monogamous, involves religious and civilly affirmed marriage, produces (or at least raises) children, and lasts until one of the spouses dies.
For me, a relationship "works" if you are, as a whole and excluding artificial negatives like prosecution and discrimination, better off as a result of having been in the relationship. What makes you "better off" is up to you. It could be strictly that you enjoyed this person's company, but it could also be that you had children together, or helped each other grow as people, or made new friends through the other person, or helped each other's careers, or... well, any number of things. A relationship doesn't have to last until death to leave you better off.
A sure sign a relationship isn't working is if one of you is abusing the other, or you're abusing each other.
Over the years, I've been fortunate enough to talk with countless people who've been involved in consanguinamory. A few of them have even been generous enough to be interviewed. For most of the people I've talked with, the relationships have worked. If the consanguinamory is in the past, they have fond memories of the great times that were shared and the emotional growth they had as a result, even the sexual confidence they developed. For many, the relationship continues and provides times of unmatched bliss and intense intimacy, even shared parenting that they have found fulfilling.
So yes, they can and do work.
And, by the way, some of them are heterosexual, always monogamous, produce and raise great people, and last until death, and it is an injustice that they are still discriminated against under the law whether it not they check off any of those boxes.
Monday, August 13, 2018
NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #7
“What’s next?” “Where do we draw the line?” What's wrong with letting consenting adults have the freedom to love each other as they want and agree? Who has a problem with that? Rather than coming up with convoluted schemes for which groups of people will get which rights, why not support the rights of all adults? It’s really quite simple:
The right to marry or to personal consortium shall not be abridged or denied by the United States or any state on account of sex, gender, sexual orientation, ancestry, consanguinity, or number of participants.
(Adapt that to your country, province, etc.)
There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.
Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #6
Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #8
Saturday, August 11, 2018
Sons and Daughters Day
It’s National Sons and Daughters Day, at least here in the US.
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Do you have reason to observe or celebrate?
If you’re an ally to your son or daughter, or you have a double bond with them, comment below and tell us about it. You can comment anonymously or signed-in.
Friday, August 10, 2018
Starting or Joining a GSA at Your School
Not only are school years a time for intense personal discovery and growth, but they are usually a time of intense pressures, including the pressure to conform, and bullying.
For those reasons, Gay-Straight Alliances, or Gender and Sexuality Associations, or Diversity clubs are critical.
If your school doesn't have such an organization, consider starting one. See here and here. As another school year ramps up, don't let your school be without such an organization!
If you school already has one, consider joining and/or supporting it. Student, faculty, and parental support are all needed.
Whether starting or joining, please do what you can to make the organization welcoming, inclusive, and accepting of all whose identity, sexual orientation, relationship orientation, or existing relationship (or that of their parents) makes them a target for discrimination or bullying.
Read More »
For those reasons, Gay-Straight Alliances, or Gender and Sexuality Associations, or Diversity clubs are critical.
If your school doesn't have such an organization, consider starting one. See here and here. As another school year ramps up, don't let your school be without such an organization!
If you school already has one, consider joining and/or supporting it. Student, faculty, and parental support are all needed.
Whether starting or joining, please do what you can to make the organization welcoming, inclusive, and accepting of all whose identity, sexual orientation, relationship orientation, or existing relationship (or that of their parents) makes them a target for discrimination or bullying.
Wednesday, August 8, 2018
Anticipation of Participation with a Sibling Relation
This is probably a first for this blog. This time, we're interviewing someone who is planning to inaugurate physical consanguinamory into their relationship.
*****
FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself.
Anonymous: I’m a 25 year old woman living in Tampa, Florida. I work as a hotel manager of sorts. I’m not there yet, but my boss sure does like to give me all the work related with the job title. I’m Hispanic and Jewish, which is not what most people expect, and my favorite hobbies are dancing, laying on my hammock, and yes it counts as a hobby, and watching soccer games just to hear the announcer say "Gooooal!" I like reading Russian literature, planting trees, Ikebana and collecting currencies of countries that no longer exist.
FME: What's your gender, sexual orientation, and relationship orientation?
I'm female, and my sexual orientation is largely straight. I say largely because I have kissed a few girls here and there, but overall I’m straight. And so far I’ve been monogamist.
FME: Who do you live with?
I currently live with my parents and my younger biological brother. The bother we are talking about is my full-blooded brother.
FME: What was your childhood like? Was sexual diversity a topic discussed in your home? Can you describe your sexual awakening? How did you discover your orientation?
My childhood was rather typical of someone growing up under a very politically progressive household. Very few topics were taboo at the table. Our parents would always have "radical" professors over and lots of what would be deemed as "controversial" topics for kids to hear were spoken in plain sight. Of course our parents being very liberal, alternative sex was widely discussed in the home. Our parents were and still are quite committed to LGBTQ and other minority rights.
As for my sexual awakening, it happened like it did for most people, around puberty. The first time I had sex I was 14 and the guy was 15. My parents found out, but rather than freak out they gave us condoms. No joke.
How did I realize my sexual orientation? I don’t know, when you are attracted to the opposite sex you just feel it I guess. It’s the same for everyone, gay or straight, you just know.
I first accepted consanguinamory as a right not unlike any other LGBTQ right around the same time I became sexually active. I felt that if I could enjoy the beauty of consensual intimacy with someone from my school without any repercussions, then why not siblings who felt the same urge?
FME: Have you had experiences or feelings for other family members?
I’ve not had any such feelings for other family members. My younger brother obviously has such feelings for me, and I’m quite happy that he does. I don’t feel it’s a negative thing that he feels this way. In fact I find it quite healthy. He’s younger and hasn’t had much if any sexual experience, and his desire to gain such experience with his big sister is not only brave, as most would never come out of that closet, but unbelievably sweet.
FME: Does anyone else know what is going on?
I don’t think anyone in the family knows of his true feelings for me. Yes our parents have seen us as being quite close, even physically, like me sitting on his lap or us just spooning together on the couch, but I doubt they’ve thought much past it. Sometimes they can be too absorbed in their own hobbies to notice us smooching or holding hands. Those are kisses without tongue.
FME: Have you been aware of anyone you know who has been involved in consanguinamory?
I met one girl in college who was in such a relationship with her dad. She initially panicked when she realized that I knew. But I reassured her that I had no intention whatsoever to out her, and that she could count on me to be her friend and confidant if she wanted.
My other contact with people in consanguine relationships was when I traveled to Tel Aviv last year. Tel Aviv, by the way, is known as an LGBTQ Mecca. There, I spoke with perhaps half a dozen or so Israeli youth who told me that romantic sibling relationships were practically as common as any other relationship, especially in the very liberal and gay districts of Tel Aviv.
FME: What are your plans?
I will let my brother have the time of his life with me. It would be wrong of me to deny him a deeper aspect of our sibling love, especially since he’s confessed his feelings and I have been supportive, at least vocally.
FME: What do you expect that will be like?
Well, physically, I have a pretty good idea. Emotionally? I won’t know until I’ve tried it. I imagine our sibling bond, which is already very strong, will be further strengthened when we consummate our love. I want to envision an experience for him that will last him the rest of his life. That will guide his approach to love and lovemaking.
*****
It's illegal in Florida, and 46 other states, for siblings to have sex. Why? There’s no good reason. They love each other as siblings already. He has made it clear he wants an addition bond. She is willing to explore that possibility. Why is there a law against this?
You can read other interviews I have done here. As you'll see, there are people from all walks of life who are in consanguinamorous relationships.
If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.
If you want to be interviewed about your "forbidden" relationship, connect with me by checking under the "Get Connected" tab there at the top of the page or emailing me at fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.
If you know someone who is in a relationship like this, please read this. If you are having romantic or sexual feelings for a sibling or other close family member, this might help. If you think someone in your family has such feelings for you, this might help.
Thank you to Anonymous for doing this interview! We wish you well in your consanguinamorous relationship. We look forward to hearing how things progress.
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