Frequently Asked Question: Why Do Polyamorists Get Married?

The question is asked as though the person asking assumes that actual monogamy is a requirement for marriage. It isn’t in most places, even though current marriage laws will only allow monogamy in the legal sense.

For the purpose of this question and answer, I will include any form of honest nonmonogamy, or any label applied, such as open relationship, open marriage, swinging, swapping, polyamory, polyfidelity and polygamy.

Why do swingers get married?

Why do people in open relationships get married?

Why do polyamorous people get married?

The short answer is: For the same reason most other people get married. They want to get married, they think it is the best thing to do at that time in life, or they’re pressured.



There are many reasons to get married, and as I noted, one doesn’t actually need to be monogamous to get married, unless one wants to be ethical and married to someone who needs and demands monogamy. People get married for love, for attraction, for companionship, to solemnize or make official their relationship, for religious reasons, to make a public statement, for sex, for children, for friendship, for benefits, for insurance, to pool resources, to co-parent, for career, for money, as a form of commitment, to apply a legal structure to their relationship, and for other reasons I’m probably forgetting. Nonmonogamists who marry do so for one or more of these reasons, just like anyone else.

Some people cite the marriage vow of "forsaking all others." But that is just ONE vow, not one that all people marrying make. The vow can also mean different things to different marriages.

Some nonmonogamists decline to marry for various reasons. Some, like some monogamists, have decided to decline until everyone can get married. Some decline to marry until everyone in their polycule can marry. Some can’t have a legal marriage for their polycule until there is full marriage equality.

The question can also be asked of monogamists: Why do you get married? Not only is actual monogamy not a requirement, in many places, of our restrictive marriage laws, but one can be monogamous without being married.

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A Note From a Therapist

This was a comment left on the blog I wanted to highlight.

I am a psychotherapist who specializes in working with clients who struggle with "taboo" sexualized thoughts and behaviors. I'm currently working on research dealing with consensual familial intimate relationships. I offer online therapy as well as in-person and I accept most major insurance. I'm licensed in Georgia and Maryland. 

Keya Johnson, MSW, LCSW, CCTP, CSOTPtherapist.keya@gmail.com

I communicated privately with this person and they do not discourage adults who are happily enjoying sexual relationships with other adults and everything along those lines stays private with them.

So please consider helping with the research, and if you need a therapist who won't automatically dismiss your relationships or desires, this may be someone for you.

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Mothers, Sons, and Children

Someone asked at this blog's sister Tumblr about mothers and sons having children.

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NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #14

“What about insurance/employment benefits?” There are many simple ways to deal with this. It is dealt with when an employee has more kids than the next, isn't it? It is not a good reason to deny the polygamous freedom to marry or polyamorous relationship rights in general.. This is something the law and/or employers and unions can figure out.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/discredited-invalid-arguments.html

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #13 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #15

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"I've just found out that my daughter's been taking ecstasy. What should I do?" One mother's call for help ...

One of the greatest fears for most parents is finding out that their child has taken an illegal drug. There are a range of reasons for this, many of them completely valid and understandable, but to respond to this situation without carefully thinking through what you should say and do can be a big mistake. A response emanating from fear or anger can have devastating and long-term implications.

I recently received an email from a mother (we'll call her Maria) who was facing this issue and she wanted my advice on how she should deal with the situation. Here is an edited version of the message:

"My daughter is 16 and my husband and I have never really had any problems with her. Her older brother was a bit of a handful, particularly around parties and alcohol, but up until a week ago we thought things were going to be relatively smooth sailing with Alyssa. We knew she had been to a couple of dance festivals but whenever we raised the issue of drugs (and we had done so a number of times) she was quick to tell us that her and her friends were not into that kind of thing. 
Last Friday before we took her to school she had left her phone on the kitchen bench and I was right next to it when a message came through. It was from one of her best friends and said something along the lines of 'All sorted for tomorrow. $25 each. Make sure you have cash today'. Alyssa was in her room and I don't know why but I knew this wasn't right. One of the conditions of her having a phone was that we would always know the password, but at the same time we promised her that we would never use it unless there was an emergency. I opened her phone and went through her texts and found a whole pile of messages that, even with my limited knowledge, I realized were obviously related to buying and using drugs. As I was reading them she walked in and saw me on her phone … She didn't make it to school that day as we had a huge argument (firstly about me looking at her phone and subsequently about what I discovered when I did) and over the next few hours (and subsequent weekend) we found out that she had been regularly using ecstasy (or MDMA as she called it) for the last 6 months. 
My husband and I are both really stumped at what to do next. The weekend was a nightmare with the more we found out about what was going on, the more terrified we became. Neither of us were drug users when we were young, not even cannabis, so this is a whole new world for us. She kept assuring us that 'everyone' took it and that it was 'harmless' (she kept saying that getting drunk was so much more dangerous). Lots has been said in anger and she's told us that grounding her is not going to stop her doing what she wants. We have no idea what to do next …"

When I spoke to the parents via a conference call, I started by making a couple of points very clear. Firstly, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop your teen taking drugs (or drinking alcohol) if that's what they want to do ... you can lock them in a cellar and never let them out but if they want to do it, they'll find a way! Secondly, much of the fear for parents around illicit drugs is usually based on what they see, read and hear in the media. Young people are right when they say that many of the reported harms are exaggerated. That's not to say that there aren't harms - very real harms in many cases - it's just that sometimes we need to be a little more realistic about them and not rely on the media when it comes to the 'facts'. Finally, let's not forget that most illicit drug use is experimental. Many teens dabble for a while and then move out of that phase of their life with few, if any, problems as a result. The reason that parents are so terrified is that this is not always the case - some young people don't make it through the other end and that is what makes this so very scary.

Now this doesn't mean that you should just sit back, do nothing and wait for your teen's drug use to stop … There are certainly some things that I suggested that Maria and her husband should do, however, as in most cases, how the drug use was discovered complicated matters. Most parents find out either by 'stumbling on it' by accident (e.g., finding a drug or drug bag in a pocket when doing their washing or seeing something on social media) or having concerns and going and searching for it (e.g., looking through their room or accessing their computer or phone). Either way, when confronted with what has been found, teens usually respond by lashing out and accusing their parents of invading their privacy and that becomes their focus, i.e., their drug use is unimportant compared to their parent's breach of trust. Trying to navigate through that minefield can be extremely difficult, as Maria had discovered …

So do you ground your child and stop them seeing their friends as a result of what you have discovered? For many parents this is their first (and often, their only) response and, in some cases, I am sure it is effective to some degree. In others, however, if this is all that is done, you simply risk jeopardising the relationship you have with your child. You have just found out that your child is involved in illegal activity, of course you have to apply some sort of consequence. But whatever that is, whether that be restricting their movements or activities for a period of time or something else, it needs to be thought through carefully. Responding in anger and fear is risky.

As far as Maria and her husband's situation was concerned, I stressed one key point - Alyssa was living in their house and, as such, it was incredibly important that their values and views in this area were respected. In addition to applying some sort of consequence for her actions, I suggested they consider the following:

• most importantly, make your views about illegal drugs clear. Parents underestimate the influence they have on their teens, with evidence suggesting that even during adolescence your opinions continue to matter and can make a difference. Telling your teen that you are disappointed with their choices and that they have let you down can be powerful. Is this likely to change their behaviour? Not necessarily, but at the very least it gives them something to think about
• ecstasy is illegal - if you can't stop them using the drug, you can insist that no drugs ever come into your house. Make it clear that if you find drugs they will be flushed down the toilet - drugs are expensive and they certainly won't like that idea at all. It is important for them to understand that if they bring the drug into your home they put the whole household at risk, not only themselves 
• drugs cost money - make it very clear to them that you will not finance their drug use. Cutting off their access to cash is not going to be something they like but can be effective - if they want to buy drugs, they're going to have to find another way to do it. This is not about punishment but rather being true to yourself and the fact that you cannot support the choices they are currently making. You can continue to pay for other things they may need but providing cash will be limited
• if they believe that ecstasy is not as risky as you think it is - ask to be educated. Get them to spend some time showing you the research they have found and why you shouldn't be as worried as you are. If you've got evidence that contradicts this, all well and good, but make sure it's from a reliable source - teens can smell a piece of government propaganda from a mile away!

So what about ecstasy (or MDMA)? As a parent should you be more concerned about this drug than others out there? Was Alyssa correct when she said that 'everyone' was doing it, that it was 'harmless' and that getting drunk was so much more dangerous?

The greatest problem for many parents around ecstasy is that it is a drug that they simply don't 'get'. It wasn't a drug that they used when they were younger (although there are certainly a growing number of parents who did experiment with the drug in the 90s and later) and all they know about it is what they see in the media. Unfortunately, the only time the media covers the ecstasy issue is when there is a death and although ecstasy-related deaths certainly do occur, they are rare - that's why they receive so much attention! This coverage leads many to believe that deaths are common and that it is a likely outcome should someone choose to use the drug - something that simply isn't true!

Of course, it is unreasonable to expect most parents to be 'experts' on drugs like ecstasy but it is important to be informed as possible on the topic. To assist parents in this area I wrote a blog entry on 5 messages about ecstasy that they should discuss with their teen. But to assist Maria I felt it was important to respond to her daughter's statements about the drug …

• 'Everyone' does it! According to available evidence, the number of school-based young people who report ever having used ecstasy continues to be low. Recent data, however, shows that almost one in ten 17-year-old school-based males and one in twenty females of the same age have used the drug. It is important to note that once young people leave school the use of ecstasy increases. Ecstasy is the second most popular drug after cannabis among those in their 20s. Regular use is not the norm, with the vast majority of ecstasy users reporting only using the drug once or twice a year, or once every few months. Weekly use is rare. So, no Alyssa, not everyone does it - everyone in your friendship group may be using but most 16-year-olds certainly do not use ecstasy/MDMA
• Ecstasy is 'harmless'. MDMA is not 'safe' or 'harmless' - the fact is that all drugs, legal, illegal or pharmaceutical, can potentially cause harm. Are you likely to die when you use the drug? No, deaths are rare, but they certainly do happen. In addition, ecstasy is illegal and more people are being 'busted' for use than ever before. A drug conviction will mean they will not be able to get certain jobs and they will not be able to travel to certain countries, just because you got caught with one pill in your pocket. Once again, Alyssa, you got it wrong - ecstasy is certainly not harmless. It has caused deaths in extreme cases and is illegal. 
• 'Getting drunk' is more dangerous than taking ecstasy. Getting drunk can, of course, lead to a range of harms, including death and injury. When it comes to comparing one drug to another in terms of harm, however, there are lots of problems. There are so many things to consider when looking at how 'dangerous' a drug is or isn't, e.g., the person taking it, where they use it, who they are with when they take it, the purity of the drug, etc. Most importantly, when you use a drug like ecstasy, you don't actually know what it is that you are taking. At least with alcohol it is a legal product and by reading the label on the bottle, you know what you're drinking and the actual alcohol content. This one's a tough one! It is difficult to compare one drug to another and although it is true that 'getting drunk' can lead to great harm, including death, Alyssa, your sweeping statement is problematic. There are so many things to consider and it's never going to be as simple as 'this drug is more dangerous than this one'

If you discover your child is using illegal drugs, as Maria did, no matter what your views in the area, there will undoubtedly be an elevated level of concern about the choices your teen is making. If it's not around physical or psychological health concerns, then it will be to do with the legal consequences of such activity. If they live with you, as well as applying a consequence for their behaviour (they have broken the law), it is vital that you make it clear that you are disappointed with their choices and then set some rules and boundaries about what will and won't be happening in the family home. Although you can put things into place to restrict their movements and activities, in reality, you can't control what they do when they eventually leave your home. That said, you certainly don't have to support the choices they make that you don't agree with …

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What About the Children?

Jane has released the results of her study on consanguinamory and reproduction. Kudos to Jane for yet another useful update!

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Can You Marry Your Brother-In-Law?

That was a search that brought someone to this blog.

What is a brother-in-law?

There is more than one way to have a brother-in-law.

1) He could be your spouse's brother.

2) He could have married your sibling.

3) Some people would call a man who is married to their spouse's sibling their brother-in-law. For example, if I was married to a woman and her sister (who would be my sister-in-law) was married to a man, I might refer to him as my brother-in-law.

4) Similar to 3, someone might think of their sibling's spouse's brother as their brother-in-law. Your sibling's spouse is definitely your brother-in-law or sister-in-law. Their brother could thus be called your brother-in-law.

Unless "in-law" is being used figuratively or in the sense of number 4, it means you and/or he are married. In most places where English is the predominant language, people can still only be legally married to one person at a time. Where someone can only be legally one person at a time, the only way you can "marry your brother-in-law" is by being unmarried and marrying the person described in number 4.



This is more common, especially historically, than some people think, whether marriages have been arranged or have been chosen by the spouses themselves. With arranged marriages, the families already know each other from the previous matching. With spouse-chosen marriages, it is easy to meet and spend time with your sibling's spouse's sibling.

If both couples have children, those children are "double cousins" and are like genetic siblings.

There have even been situations in which identical twin men have married identical twin women.

So yes, in that sense you can legally marry your brother-in-law, and it happens all of the time. If you are a woman, you can legally marry your brother-in-law in more countries than if you are a man.

Where heterosexual polygyny is allowed as a legal form of marriage, an umarried woman can marry the man who is married to her sister, and thus she can marry her brother-in-law in that sense.

Where heterosexual fraternal polyandry is practiced, a woman is expected to marry her husband's unmarried brother (her brother-in-law) if she is going to have a polyandrous relationship.

Otherwise, currently, someone can only marry an ex brother-in-law, meaning that one or more divorces or deaths ends the marriage(s) that made him your brother-in-law.

With full marriage equality, you will be free to legally marry any brother-in-law who is agreeable. Won't it be nice when an adult is free to marry any and  all consenting adults, so that such questions won't have to be asked?

Regardless of all of he above, sex between in-laws does happen, both in affairs and in ethical nonmonogamy.

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Your Son's Choice in Media Content

Someone recently found this blog searching "My son has started to view incest porn."

What does it mean that your son is viewing "incest porn"?

There is a wide variety of material that can fall under that category.

1. Are we talking about professionally produced videos, featuring unrelated actors, like the classic "Taboo" movies or the countless more recent offerings?

2. Are we talking about what appears to be amateur or "home made" material with people who purport to actually be related?

3. Are we talking about material that depicts assault/molestation?

The first two categories are wildly and widely popular. There are a lot of people who are watching that or material that portrays fauxcest/nearcest. (There are a lot of people who have actual experience, too.) We generally refer to that as consanguineous sex or consanguinamory to distinguish it from abuse or assault.

While category 3 isn't as popular, it still has a following and as long as we're talking about fiction with consenting actors, there isn't necessarily cause for concern. If he seems to be obsessed with abuse/assault he should probably see a mental health professional for an evaluation.

The rest of this entry will focus on a son who is watching something that falls into the first two categories, which depict consensual consanguineous sex.



There could be different things going on:

Possibility A: He has an "incest fetish" or at least mild curiosity and wants to see consanguineous sex, or at least depictions thereof, or likes it because it is "taboo." There are many people who view "incest" porn or erotica who are doing so for this reason and have no interest in any of their actual relatives. If this is the case, it's merely his entertainment and there should be no concern and there isn't anything to discuss.

Possibility B) He's consanguinamorous in orientation and this is at least part of how he is discovering/addressing (maybe even revealing) his desires. (It is important for him to know that porn and erotica are fantasy, and like most media, are usually not accurate reflections of reality.)

Possibility C) Even if he isn't strictly consanguinamorous, there is at least one close relative or family member with whom he would like to have sex, and so he finds erotica with that theme especially interesting.

B and C are where the rubber hits the road. If the son is watching material that depicts scenarios that would include the person doing the search or an actual relative he has, then there might be something to talk about with him. For example, if mom wants to know why her son is watching what is supposed to be sex between a mother and son, it could be because he wants to have sex with her, whether sex only or more of a romantic relationship. Same goes for a father who wants to know why his son watches "father-son" porn. If it is something else, like siblings, cousins, or aunt/uncle with niece/nephew then it might be something he wants with relatives who have those relations to him.

An important question is, how did the person doing the search find out that his or her son watches this material? If the parent knows because the son wanted them to know (he told them, he didn't erase his browsing history, he used a device to which he knows they have access, he allowed them to walk in on him), then he likely wants to have sex with one (or more) of them and this was a signal to them, and he was testing their reaction. If the parent knows because they have circumvented the son's attempts at privacy, there is a chance this is a "Possibility A" situation, although it could still be B and/or C.

Figuring out what is going on might include continuing to monitor his viewing habits, talking with him (could be awkward, but would be healthy), and paying close attention to what else is happening. For example, if he's been viewing brother-sister erotica and he seems to have been trying to spend more time with his sister and getting more affectionate or playful with her, then that is different than if he seems to avoid his sister.

So What's Next?

There might not be anything to do. If this is simply the son finding the erotic media he likes, there is nothing to do, provided he's old enough to view it.

If a parent understands their son wants to have sex with others in the family, the parent can attempt to be preventative, neutral, or supportive in their reaction. Preventative actions are for "sex" that wouldn't really be sex, but assault (as in, the family member or members the son wants are unable to consent). This can involve confronting the son with warnings, denying him access, etc. Neutral would mean staying out of the matter entirely and allowing those involved their privacy. Supportive could mean any number of things, up to playing the wingman. If, for example, a mother discovers her son wants to be with her sister (his aunt), the mother might talk with the aunt about it or advise her son how to approach his aunt.

If the parent understands their son wants to have sex with them, then the parent has some decisions to make. Initial reactions, especially negative ones, might change. If he's not of age, he might benefit from reading this. If he's of age, you still might want to move forward slowly.

Whatever is going on, if your son watches such media, he's  hardly alone. It is a very popular theme in erotica and porn.

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Tips For Switching to Polyamory

Quora is an excellent way ask and answer questions. I certainly recommend it over a certain Big Internet Portal That-Was-Just-Bought-by-a-Big-Telecom's Answers service. Somebody asked "What are some tips for people who are thinking about transitioning to being polyamorous?"

Before we move on to the answers, which you should check out in full by following the link above, it is important to note that for some people, they are polyamorous as who they are, just like they are left or right-handed. They are polyamorous whether they are in a relationship or not, or even if they are currently in a relationship with one person. For such people it is more a matter of becoming true to themselves. Other people can function well long-term in polyamorous relationships or monogamous relationships.

Franklin Veaux is always a good person to consult about polyamory. He is co-author of More Than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory...

Don’t expect that you can just try it and go back to the way things were if it doesn’t work for you. It will change things, even if you decide later to return to monogamy.

Yes it will.

Don’t imagine you can script how your “outside” relationships will develop or what they’ll look like. Other people are people, and people are complicated. Things will go in directions you didn’t expect. Theory and practice are the same in theory but different in practice. That’s okay. Cultivate an attitude of flexibility and resilience.

A person can decide what their boundaries are, but they can't decide for anyone else.

Lori Beth Bisbey, an intimacy coach and clinical psychologist...

Do some research. Read Dr Meg Barker’s book Rewriting the Rules, Franklin Veaux and Eve Richert’s book More than Two, and Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy’s book The Ethical Slut for some balanced perspectives.

Good advice.

Kari Rakitan...

Just be sure to keep your love life separate from your career for a while unless you are in a profession where such openness is actually beneficial to your work. If you want to come out to people at work later, make sure you are fully prepared to defend your decision. Some of the books Lori mentioned will be helpful for that.

It's too bad that anyone would feel pressured to keep closeted about consensual adult relationships, but sometimes it is necessary to avoid the negative effects of bigotry. Read more about protecting yourself and each other.

I will add this:

It can be much easier or at least less complicated if you're not in a relationship when you make this change. That way, as you date people, you can let them know at the appropriate time that you will not be promising monogamy because you are intentionally, ethically, nonmonogamous. Also, you can seek out partners in polyamory forums and social networking groups.

Making the transition when already in an established relationship is possible, it just means your partner has to be on board, whether or not they will be seeking new partners, and your new partner(s) has/have to be OK with your current partner being their metamour.

Why More Will Try Polyamory

Advice on Coming Out as Polyamorous To Your Parents

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