Intergenerational Relationships Can Work

Are you in or considering an intergenerational relationship? Are you against such relationships?

By “intergenerational,” I’m talking about ADULT generations. I’m talking about CONSENTING ADULTS. I just wanted to get that out of the way. I’m not talking about adults preying on minors, pedophilia, etc.

The Bad

Although not illegal, nonconsanguineous relationships between adults with a sizable age difference do face prejudice and discrimination. Stereotypical assumptions, expressed as though they are automatically negative, are made about both the younger and older people involved in such relationships.

The older person, depending on age/gender, is often said to be:

• In denial about aging
• Trying to relive their youth
• Taking advantage of” or “using” the younger person(s)
• Having a midlife crisis
• Immature
• Incapable of relating to people their own age
• Controlling
• Looking for a nurse
• Cradle-robbing
• Avoiding “real” commitment
• Just looking for sex

The younger person, depending on age, is often said to be:

• Trying to feel older or more mature
• Flattered by the attention of an older person
• Having mommy or daddy issues
• A gigolo or looking for a sugar daddy 
• A gold digger
• “Taking advantage of” or “using” the older person(s)
• Looking to be controlled or taken care of
• Avoiding “real” commitment
• Just looking for sex

While the gossips and finger-waggers might see each of those as pejorative, the people in the relationships might not see all of those as bad. For example, what if it is “just” about sex? That goes for many relationships between people close in age. What’s wrong with consensual sex? There’s nothing wrong with an older person looking for a sexual partner with more energy and tighter skin, or a younger person looking for a sexual partner with more competence and confidence. Also, many of the same criticisms can be credibly applied to relationships between people of the same age.

Regardless, there are people in these relationships who have a healthy relationship and are happy, fulfilled, and getting what they need and want. Some of these relationships last for the long term. Discriminating against people who are in these relationships often involves jealousy, envy, ageism, sexism, and sex-negativity. There is this idea that a relationship has to be monogamous, lead to marriage and baby-making, and last until death, and intergenerational relationships are not seen by people asserting this notion as ideal for that, even though it is possible for such relationships to be monogamous, lead to marriage and baby-making, and last until death. But that doesn’t stop the sex police, who also bash cohabitation without marriage, polyamory and other forms of ethical nonmonogamy, being childless by choice, gay and lesbian relationships, and often consanguineous and interracial relationships.

Although I don’t talk about myself a lot on this blog, I will say that I have had multiple long-term relationships with older women. I was not specifically seeking older women; it is just how things worked out, in part because I’ve always had friends of different generations. I do not regret these relationships. The first was when I was still a teenager (although of legal age) with a woman in her mid-40s. That started out as a friendship. It lasted as a sexual relationship for about a year and a half. In my 20s, I was with a woman in her 50s. There are other examples, but you get the idea.

In the past, especially with women being treated as property, incubators, domestic servants, and needing males to represent them in public life, it was somewhat socially acceptable for certain men to marry women much younger than them. Now women who freely choose to be with older men are seen by some as setting equality back. On the plus side is the increasing acceptability of relationships between older women and younger men.

Those who express their prejudice against such relationships will often say something along the lines of…

“She’s old enough to be your mother!”
“He’s old enough to be your father!”
“She’s young enough to be your daughter!”
“He’s young enough to be your son!”

But when asked, “So what?” the person objecting to this consensual relationship between adults will almost never have a rational answer. The real answer is usually either that they wouldn’t want such a relationship for themselves, or, conversely, that they wish they had a relationship like that and are envious. Neither of those should have any power over anyone else’s consensual relationships.


The Good

There are some advantages to intergenerational relationships, depending on whether people are looking for a deep and lasting relationship or something more casual.

The couple or polycule will have the perspective, experiences, and likely a circle of friends from at least two generations, instead of just one.

Younger participants may bring vigor, vitality, and fresh perspectives while older participants may bring experience, understanding, and stability.

Older participants may impart reassurance and guidance to younger participants, and the younger participants may provide the older participants with help getting out of a rut and a feeling of renewal.

Male and female libidos are often not at the same level at the same ages, and sometimes an intergenerational relationship brings together people who would not be happy if they were restricted to only being with people their age.

Male fertility generally lasts longer than female fertility. That means someone who wants a child can still have one with an older man, and someone who doesn’t want a child doesn’t risk unwanted pregnancies with an older woman.

If it makes them happy, isn't that good?



Considerations For Those Considering Such a Relationship

For anyone:

1. Recognize you are in different phases of life. That can have advantages and disadvantages. If you do pursue this relationship, make the most of the advantages and prepare for the disadvantages.

2. Be forewarned that you're going to get some judgmental, jealous, and envious people wagging their fingers at you.

3. These relationships are often entered into by someone who has one or more children. If so:  a) The other parent(s) of your lover’s children, if alive, are likely to always be involved somehow in your lover’s life, and therefore your life; b) Any child and their parent might not like you (or your own children) or the idea of your lover having a new lover; c) Even if your lover’s child likes you, those feelings may change as they get older, especially if you and your lover have a child together; d) If your lover pays (or is liable for) child support, depending on the laws where you live, YOUR income can be figured into that if you get married, meaning that you could be legally required to help pay your lover’s child support.

4. Children of the older lover may have an attraction to or crush on the younger lover and may resent their parents because of it, or may be jealous of the affection their parents has for the lover. Parents of the younger lover may have an attraction to the older lover, causing certain tensions.


If you are younger:

1. Understand that because your lover has more life experience, your lover may have certain power advantages over you, but almost every relationship has power differences.

2. Understand that if you want to have (more) children and grow old with someone, you're not as likely to do it with a lover multiple decades older as you would with one your own age. (Even if you don't feel right now that you'll want those things, your feelings could easily change in the future.)

3. Be aware some people look for younger lovers for reasons with which you might not be comfortable, but that can be true of relationships of any age; as long as you look for warning signs and stand up for yourself, there shouldn't be a problem.

4. Understand you're still young and you've got a lot of life and personal growth ahead of you.


If you are older:

1. Be aware some people look for older lovers for reasons with which you might not be comfortable, but that can be true of relationships of any age; as long as you look for warning signs and stand up for yourself, there shouldn't be a problem.

2. Understand that your younger lover may not be as set in their ways as you are or know themselves as well as you know yourself. He or she still has much personal growth ahead of them and what they want could change more easily than what you want (especially in terms of getting married, having children, and long-term goals) making you no longer compatible. He or she make think they can be happy with an aging partner, but they’re less likely to truly understand that really means than someone your age or older than you.

3. You shouldn’t assume the younger person knows as much as you do, will relate to in-your-lifetime history like you do, or will get your cultural references. But nor should you assume they are ignorant.


Conclusion

As with any other relation that is subject to stigma and discrimination (casual, interracial, international, interfaith, gay/lesbian, polyamorous, open, consanguinamorous, D/s, etc.) intergenerational relationships shouldn’t be dismissed or discriminated against just because they aren’t what someone else sees as ideal. Consenting adults should be free to have the relationships they want with each other. It is up to them to decide if a relationship is right for them or not. Sure, there are some bad intergenerational relationships, just like there are bad relationships of any circumstance. The bad relationships should not mean that nobody should be supported by family and friends or discriminated against because of who they love and how they love them.

Those who object to these relationships because of a personal belief that lovers should die within a short time of each other are ignoring that fact that people who are about the same age could have very different longevity, and the surviving lover(s) can find new loves.

Whether they last for life or for a season, these relationships can be beneficial to all involved.





Should I date an older woman? Should I date an older man? Is it OK to date a younger man? It is OK to date a younger woman? What about intergenerational dating? What about intergenerational marriage? What about intergenerational sex? Is it OK to have a younger boyfriend? Is it OK to have a younger girlfriend?

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We're on Tumblr, Too

In case you don't already know, this blog has a sister blog on Tumblr. Sometimes, we answer submitted questions, like this one. Take a look and bookmark us, follow us, whatever works for you.

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Myth: I Don’t Know Anyone Who Has Experienced GSA

Reality: You might not know of them experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction, but chances are, there is someone in your life who has experienced GSA.

Think it through. Someone experiences reunion GSA in up to 50% of all introductions/reunions of close genetic relatives who were not raised together or by one another, provided the genders and sexual orientations are compatible. Think of all of the people in your extended family and circle of friends, your classmates, coworkers, neighbors, fellow members of clubs or religious congregations, and the people who regularly provide you with a service or are a regular customer of yours. You might not know it in every case, especially since people might want to keep these things private, but a few of them are adopted or gave a child up for adoption, a few were conceived by sperm or egg donation or provided sperm or egg donations, a few were separated from a parent (and often half siblings) due to divorce or breakup or the relationship being a fling, one night stand, or affair. So some of them have had a genetic parent, child, sibling, aunt, uncle, nephew, or niece from whom they were separated enough that if, and when, they were introduced or reunited post-puberty, someone experienced GSA.

Just because one person experiences GSA doesn’t mean it is reciprocal. Even if reciprocated, it might not lead to consanguinamory. Even if it leads to consanguinamory, you might not find out about it.

There are certainly famous people you know of, perhaps even admire, who have experienced GSA.

The mobility of human beings has increased dramatically with transportation innovations, systems, and affordability. Gamete and embryo donations have become an increasingly common reality. Those things have meant more people maturing separated from close genetic relatives. Social networking is bringing people together, as is the same increased mobility that had them apart. These things mean more people experiencing GSA.

Since GSA almost always involves some pain (even if only due to external prejudice), people who experience it need compassion, not condemnation.

If you know or think it is possible that someone specific in your life has dealt with GSA, this might be of some help.

Even if you don't personally know anyone who has experienced GSA, shouldn't all adults have their rights when it comes to their relationships?

See Myth: People in GSA Relationships Don’t Need the Freedom to Marry

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Marriage Equality Amendment

I once found this blog where someone was proposing a "Marriage Equality Amendment.”

The simple text of the proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

The right to marry shall not be abridged or denied by the United States or any state on account of sex or sexual orientation.

We are definitely in favor of lifting restrictions that prevent someone from marrying someone of the same gender. But this amendment would still leave on the books numerous laws that prevent full marriage equality. The people on whose behalf I am blogging would not only still be prevented from having their marriages recognized, but many could be imprisoned for openly living as married. Prejudice against one is prejudice against all.

A better wording for the amendment would be:

The right to marry or to personal consortium shall not be abridged or denied by the United States or any state on account of sex, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, ancestry, consanguinity, affinity, or number of participants.

Haven’t we progressed to this point? Why prevent consenting adults from loving each other?

[This entry bumped up because it is as relevant as ever.]

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Coming Out Consanguinamorous

Introduction

"Coming out" means declaring or no longer hiding that you're consanguinamorous in orientation or in a consanguinamorous relationship. Whether, when, to whom, and how to come out is something that can weigh on the mind of a consanguinamorous person.

Getting to decide whether, when, to whom, and how to come out is a privilege that is sometimes denied people who are outed against their will or by accident. Consanguinamorous people should seriously consider how to protect themselves.

Please note this entry is about coming out in general, such as to family, friends, etc., not about coming out to a romantic/sexual/spousal partner. That has many different considerations and warrants its own entry.

Stay in the Closet If/Until...

Stay in the closet if the risks or negative consequences of coming out  where you live/work will outweigh the positives or benefits. Stay in the closet until that changes. In determining this, you should also consider the needs and feelings of your current or past consanguinamorous partner(s) who would likely be outed along with you. For example, a 25-year-old woman may feel like she'll be OK if she comes out, but what about her 50-year-old father, who is her partner? He is far more likely to be seen as an predator, even if the relationship was entirely consensual and initiated by the woman, who wasn't raised by him but rather a loving adoptive father and mother?

Having to hide who you are or your loving relationships can be a psychological burden and can unduly restrict your life. Under current legal and cultural conditions in most places though, it is generally safer for you and your lover(s) if you stay in the closet.

In some places, being out can mean being tortured and murdered. In other places, that's not likely, but you can be criminally prosecuted, fined, and thrown into prison for decades. Even in most places where consanguinamory isn't criminalized, you can still be persecuted, harassed, bullied, and discriminated against (refused housing, denied employment, denied the right to marry, etc.), estranged/shunned/disowned from/by family members, and lose friendships. Yes, it is a travesty that these things happen to people simply because they love each other, but that's a sad fact of life we are working to change.

Some people will wait to come out until one or more of the following is true:

• they are living where consanguinamory isn't criminalized
• consanguinamorous people are protected against discrimination
• they are financially secure, likely for the rest of their life
• they are retired or self-employed with supportive clients/customers
• they are no longer in a consanguinamorous relationship, especially if they are unlikely to get into another one or resume a past relationship
• their parent(s) or other family members likely to object have passed
• the benefits of coming out outweigh the drawbacks (this can be relative to the person and situation, such as the emotional burden of remaining closeted being too much to endure)

Why It Can Be Good To Come Out

It can be good to come out for both personal and societal reasons.

Personally, coming out can lift psychological and emotional burdens. Being open and honest with medical professionals, therapists, counselors, attorneys, financial planners, and other professionals benefits people, as does being able to he open and honest with family, friends, and social contacts. Otherwise, simply going through life can have unnecessary challenges.

For society, visibility helps. Coming out shows other consanguinamorous people that they're not alone. It can also open the minds of others and encourage people to become allies. It's easier to perpetuate prejudices if people think only "bad" people they don't know do these things. Having large numbers of people come out will allow medical professionals, sociologists, and others study the dynamics of consanguinamory. This can be beneficial for relationships in general.

Your life situation and your local culture and laws may be such that coming out is the right decision for you, especially when you consider how coming out can help you and others by helping to raise awareness, start dialogues, open minds, and change laws.


If and When You Decide to Come Out

If Possible, Don't Out Others Without Their Consent. You may be ready to come out, but will your coming out also out someone else who isn't ready to come out? Discuss things with them to either get their consent or figure out what else can be done. Nobody should be outed against their will unless they are in a position of power and hypocritically persecuting others for who they love.

A Process, Not An Event. For most people, coming out will be an ongoing process, not a single event. It may make sense to come out to one or two people first, people you trust to be supportive and helpful, especially if they can help you come out to others. A common example is first coming out to a sibling or grandparent who can help you come out to your parents. Even if you come out to your family, friends, neighbors, etc, coming out can still be an ongoing process because people will come into your life that make assumptions about relationships and sexuality.

Another way that coming out can be a process is that if there is another factor to your identity or sexuality that is marginalized. For example, if you're polyamorous, it might be better to come out as polyamorous first, depending if people around you are more likely to accept polyamory than consnaguinamory. If you don't fit the cisgender/hetero-monogamist/vanilla mold, or whatever is seen as "traditional" and "normal" where you are in multiple aspects, you might have multiple steps to coming out.

Get Prepared. There's a good chance that you'll  have to defend not only yourself, but consanguinamory in general. Be prepared to deal with the question of why. If you're in a reunion GSA situation, that might need some extra explanation. In addition to this blog, there's the Consaguinamory Wiki, Jane's blog, and Cristina's blog to help you prepare or for you to show someone who has questions.


Brace Yourself. Be prepared for hate, accusation of you being "sick," confusion, bad arguments against you, questions, and people needing time to process what you've told them. You might not get acceptance, support, or congratulations, immediately or ever, whatever your relationship has been like with these people before you came out. Some of them may already know or have strongly suspected, but they may have been more comfortable with things left unsaid. For others, consanguinamory is furthest from their mind and so they may be completely surprised. Some people may even be completely indifferent.

Jealousy or envy might come into play. This can happen in many ways. For example, if you're with your sibling, another sibling or a cousin might wonder why you're not with them. Or a third sibling might resent how close you two are, even if that third sibling has no sexual interest in either of you.

There is the possibility that someone close you, especially a parent, grandparent, aunt, or uncle, will have had their own experiences with consanguinamory or consanguinamorous feelings, but caved into pressure and it ended. They may be especially resistant to accepting your ongoing status because it is something they think they should have had, but didn't. They may feel, at least for a while, that you should do what they felt they had to do; sublimate your feelings, end your relationship, and pick an "acceptable" life.

Test the Waters. Testing the waters may give you some indication of how someone would react to you coming out, while still allowing you to avoid actually coming out. The easiest way to test the waters is to bring up the topic of marginalized, taboo, or forbidden sexualities and relationships in general (or, if you're feeling bold, you can be specific in bringing up consanguinamory). If you don't find opportunities to do this in the normal course of conversation with these people, then you can do it by bringing up the subject by referencing fiction (books, television shows, movies, theatre, music), a news item, or (proposed) legislation, even if you have to make it up. If you're lucky, they might say something like "What consenting adults do with each other is nobody else's business," to which you can ask. "Are there any exceptions?" Or you can bring up that principle, saying "I think adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults. I can't think of any exceptions to that. Can you?"

If they have a bad reaction to the idea of consanguinamory, you know it is a no-go with them, unless they have a very strong admiration for you, so much so that your coming out to them would change their opinion on consanguinamory. (If you're so confident about that, you don't need to bother the test the waters.) But if is an accepting or supportive reaction from them, you MIGHT be safe. That's not for certain, because sometimes people treat personal matters different than abstract concepts. Think of the man who says he's not racist and is fine with interracial marriage, but gets upset when his daughter brings home a man of a different race. On the other hand, some who've feared that someone would be uptight or close-minded have been pleasantly surprised at their acceptance, whether quick or gradual.

How To Come Out

Make a Plan. There will probably never be a "perfect" time and place, but consider picking a time, place, and methods based on the person(s) to whom you want to come out. Will your lover(s) be with you? Think through what you choose. Can you visualize doing it? Can you run through the scenario in your mind? You can always change your mind right up until the moment it has been done, so adjust your plans as you think best.

What Before Who. If you're in, or pursuing a relationship, to be safe, it might be good to tell the person you're coming out to what is going on before you tell them who is involved, in case you misjudged their tolerance. With some people, the best tactic can be to start by telling them you're in love or that you've found someone special who makes you happy. That tends to elicit encouragement and happiness. From there, tell them that some people might not like it and go on to say it is because of who this person already was to you. If the person you're tellings react negatively, even if they accurately guess your involvement(s), you don't need to (and probably shouldn't) let them know they're right. Of course, if you're simply coming out as consanguinamorous in your orientation and not in a consanguinamorous relationship, this is not an issue.

In the Flesh or Remote? There are many ways to come out, some better than others. In general, it is better to do it in private, calm circumstances. Unless someone is violent and likely to have an outburst or tantrum, in-person is generally better than via electronic face time, a video or audio recording, a picture, or a written message. (In-person, if not being recorded, also tends to leave less evidence that can be used for criminal prosecution, if that is a concern.) However, if you want to come out to many people at the same time, there may be no other option than to do it through some form of electronic communication.

Use the Past. If you're coming out to a family member, do you know of any of your common ancestors who were consanguinamorous? How about living relatives? Or was someone else in the family out as some other marginalized sexuality? Leading off with that might be the best way to ease into what you reveal about yourself.Not a Victim. If someone may be mistaken as a victim because of their age or gender or some other reason, it might be best for them to break the news. For example, if you're a young woman who is with her father, and you two want to come out to your grandmother, it might be best if you are clearly directing the conversation. It might even be best to do it away from your father. This might help ease concerns on the part of your grandmother that you were somehow manipulated or coerced. If possible, start off by getting agreement from the person you're coming out to that you're an adult who can make her own decisions about her body, sexuality, and relationships. It can also help to explain that intergenerational relationships can work and they're not inherently abusive whether the older person is the mother, father, aunt, uncle, or whatever. If you're siblings, this might help your family.

Request Their Cooperation. Unless you don't care who knows, implore the person to respect you by keeping the news to themselves in so far as you need. Point out that, depending on where you live, prejudice can be result in threats to your life, your freedom, your employment, etc. Let them know how they can be an ally to you and how they can help you and others.




You May Not Have to Actively Come Out

Depending on your situation, you might not have to actively come out. Rather, you simply stop holding the closet door closed. For example, if you're with your sibling and others know you spend a lot of time together, if they ask if they can set you up or when you're going to "settle down" and find someone, if you're not interested in taking on other relationships, you can say something like, "I'm happy with my life the way it is." Or if someone says you're spending too much time with your sibling or you are "too close," you can say something like, "This makes us happy. We like being together." Neither of those statements is an outright statement that you're consanguinamorous, but it leaves it open for interpretation.

Sometimes, you're better off, at least for the moment, under a "don't ask, don't" tell approach. There's an elephant in the room, but as long as it isn't discussed, there'll be peace.

Wearing or displaying the Friends of Lily symbol can be a silent way of making a statement.

Remember

No matter what other people say or do, your worth is not determined by them. You're life is made up of your actions. Though you may crave someone else's approval, you don't need it to live your life. You might want to shout from the rooftops, or maybe you don't want to tell anyone. Your life, and your love life especially, is yours, just as other people have been living theirs. If you need some reassurance and acceptance, join our free forum, Kindred Spirits. Unlike so many others, it is not a fetish site. It is for serious discussion by consanguinamorous people and allies. You may also find help elsewhere.

Have you come out? Tell us how it went. Are you planning to come out? Let us know. You can comment below (including anonymously) or send email to fullmarriageequality at protonmail dot com.

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Equality, Life, Liberty, & Happiness

Today is Independence Day in the US, considered our country's birthday. Connected to the day is the Declaration of Independence, which touts equality and notes that we have the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

When the Declaration of Independence was written, equality was reserved for white, landowning, heterosexual, Christian males. Great strides have been made to extend equality to everyone else. As we know, equality just for some is not equality. In recent times, we have seen the death of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" for military service and we saw the burials of Prop H8 of at least part of DOMA, followed by many pro-equality court rulings ever since, now made even better with the Supreme Court ruling for the nationwide limited monogamous same-gender freedom to marry.

More people are coming out of the closet, and more allies are coming out in support of equality. More people are getting married, and now we have more polyamorous and polygamous people speaking up for their rights.

But we’re still on our journey. Equality, liberty, and the right to pursue happiness are, in many places in the US, and at the national government level, still denied to LGBT people. Even more so, these rights are denied to the polyamorous and the consanguinamorous.

Let’s keep moving forward so that an adult, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, or gender, is free to pursue love, sex, residence and marriage with any and all consenting adults, and not be denied liberty, employment, housing, or anything else.

This isn't just a philosophical thing or a principle. There are people, good people, who are hurt by ongoing discrimination, prejudice, and ignorance. There are people just being themselves, hurting nobody, and people who are in loving, healthy relationships who are being denied their rights, who have to hide who they are or their love for each other, who constantly endure people proclaiming that the love they share is sick or disgusting or makes them worthy of being subjected to abuse or death. There are teenagers who have simply behaved as normal teenagers with each other and haven't hurt anybody (including each other or themselves) who are being lied to and told that nobody else is like them and they are depraved. That's no way to have to live, it certainly isn't liberty, and it squashes the pursuit of happiness.

They need to know they are not alone, and there's nothing wrong with them.

We need independence from hate and ignorance. So let's keep evolving America, and encourage other countries to do the same.

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Laws Vary Regarding Relationships Between Consenting Adults

We've heard so many different misunderstandings about laws as they apply to relationships and sex between consenting adults. Here in the US, it is especially understandable because laws vary from state to state. There are, of course, fifty states, but there are also other jurisdictions such as the District of Columbia, territories, such as Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, and there are also federal laws, military codes, and laws that apply to "Indian reservations" (small areas where indigenous peoples have some level of self-determination).

If you are concerned about the laws where you are or where you're considering moving, it would be a good idea to see if the laws of that location are searchable online and to consult an attorney who specializes in family or criminal law for that jurisdiction. An experienced lawyer can tell you about how often a law is enforced even if it is still in effect, and might be able to point out ways someone could make it less likely they'd ever be prosecuted.

Some states have laws still on the books that have been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. The only reason to still have those laws is a deranged hope that the Court decision will eventually be reversed.

Unmarried sex or cohabitation, interracial relationships, same-sex relationships, certain sex positions, even using contraception or sex toys have all been illegal in some places in the US. It might seem shocking, but it is true.

As the show "Sister Wives" detailed, Utah has been the last state to enforce a law against polyfidelity, or at least saying more than one person is your spouse. We're not even talking about insurance coverage or anything like that. Simply saying that you have more than one spouse is illegal. It's outrageous, but true.

When it comes to consanguinamory, confusion ranges from "I thought it was illegal everywhere for cousins to have sex" to "There are no laws against consenting adults having sex, no matter how closely related." Both statements are false.

The fact is, first cousins are incarcerated for having sex in a handful of US states. But about half of US states will allow first cousins to legally marry (and the list of states isn't what stereotypes would have you believe), although some of them have some restrictions. That leaves many states where where they can have sex, live together, raise children together, but can't legally marry. Outrageous, but true.

As far as relatives closer than that, in general, 47 states have laws against relatives closer than first cousins having sex. Ohio allows siblings to be together. Rhode Island and New Jersey have no laws against adults being together, no matter how closely related. Some other states apparently haven't criminalized sex between adults and their uncles or aunts (outside of old, overturned laws that criminalized unmarried sex, given that these people weren't allowed to marry.)

None of the states will knowingly allow relatives closer than first cousins to legally marry, with certain exceptions in certain states for uncles and nieces, for example, mostly a nod to traditions from foreign cultures. Traditions are not respected, however, when it comes to having more than one legal spouse.

Note that these criminalization laws and laws denying marriage rights tend to apply to genetic ("blood") relatives even if they were legally adopted to different families and never met until well into adulthood.

Some states may have relied on criminalization of homosexuality (which was overturned) and thus might not have anti-incest laws that technically criminalize same-sex consanguinmory. Laws can get very specific, outlawing certain sex acts but not others between certain people. Yes, as silly as it sounds, some specific sex acts that don't harm anyone have been illegal in some places.

The patchwork of unjust laws needs to be changed. There shouldn't be anywhere in the US (or any other country for that matter) where consenting adults are denied their basic rights to have a mutual relationship that includes whatever form of sex they want to have, living together, and, if they want, marriage, or any other union or partnership offered under law. Nobody should fall in love and then worry that if they move for a job they won't be able to marry in their new state or might even be criminals.

There's no good reason to deny these rights. In the US, it should be obvious that legal precedents have determined that such discrimination is unjust and unconstitutional. But people are understandably confused as many unjust laws are still enforced.

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We Get Angry Letters

In a recent entry we pointed out that adults having their basic rights isn't child abuse. To that, we got an angry comment. Like and comment with expletives, we won't be printing it unedited, but we wanted you to see the reasoning being used.

You are full of s---!! Adults are children... and at different stages of life they become more children like. Adults abuse other Adults and manipulate for their own good and purpose when the abuser has been abused as a child. When an adults has had trauma in their childhood life they don't have a clear mind nor scene of what is being spoon feed to them from the abuser, because the abuser is so good in doing the abuse as an adult to many other weak and traumatize adults. For the abusers benefit.  

But if both adults are with out trauma in childhood life and knows as a child that they are different and think differently and still in the adult life feel the same way then it should be okay. But that way only.

The entry was about how adults having their rights isn't abusing children.

All adults were children before. Does this comment mean they are now, as adults, incapable of consenting to their relationships because they used to be children? Or does that only apply to people who were traumatized as children, or does it also apply to traumatized adults? How much is too much?

Abuse, including "grooming" a minor, is not what we're talking about here. And if an adult is incapable of consenting to relationships because of trauma or any other condition, that's something else as well. On the other hand, it is cruel to automatically say that anyone who has been traumatized in the past can't consent to a relationship now. In general, adults should be free to have the relationships to which they mutually agree. There is no good reason to deny such basic rights.

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