Friday, December 15, 2017

NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #10


“Polyamory/polygamy spreads sexually transmitted infections.” Unprotected sex with someone who is infected is how such infections may be transmitted. Twenty people could have group sex and a group marriage for fifty years and if none of them brings an infection into the marriage and they only have sex with each other, none of them will get a sexually transmitted infection.

We do not deny people their freedom to marry based on which diseases they have. In most places, people can legally have sex with multiple partners anyway. Polyfidelity can be encouraged if polygamy is legalized and polyamory is no longer stigmatized, which would actually reduce disease transmission. Polyamorous people tend to be more careful about prevention, safer sex, and actually talking about the issues involved.

There is no good reason to deny an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or religion, the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

Feel free to share, copy and paste, and otherwise distribute. This has been adapted from this page at Full Marriage Equality: http://ift.tt/1K0B6Zj

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny Love #9 

Go to NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Polyamorous) Love #11

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Chocolate Orange Cake with Orange Glaze








At my work place, we have a tradition of celebrating everyone's birthdays. Recently it was one of my co-worker's birthday. She has dairy allergy and therefore cannot eat regular cakes. I wanted to make her something pretty that didn't have dairy in it. I then decided to make her a Chocolate-Orange Marble Bundt Cake with orange glaze. As you can see I have made Chocolate-Orange Marble Bundt Cake before but without the glaze. I used powdered sugar and royal icing flowers to decorate the cake. 

 













This time I decided to try a slightly different cake recipe. I must proudly admit that this was an experiment that was successful. The cake was moist, light and with the right amount of sweetness.  I was proud of the end result and the testimony to that is not only my friend whose birthday it was liked it but all my other co-workers did too and the cake was gone in no time!! Bonus: it looked so pretty. 

    























This is a cake that is easy to make and decorate, especially on a weekday. It is perfect for the upcoming holiday season where you attend so many holiday parties and may have to bring something or have to host one and have so many items to prepare !



 

Servings: 10-12

Prep time: 30 minsCook time: 45 mins-60 mindTotal time: 75-90 mins


Ingredients:


For the Cake:

All purpose flour: 2 cups
Baking powder: 1 tsp
Baking soda: 1 & 1/2 tsp
Salt: pinch
Cocoa powder: 1/2 cup
Instant coffee: 1 & 1/2 tbsp
Milk: 1 cup
Hot water: 1/2 cup
Powdered sugar: 1 & 1/2 cups
Cooking oil : 1 cup 
Eggs: 3 large
Orange juice: 1/4 cup 
Orange zest: 2 tbsp ( from 1 medium orange) 
Raisins: 1/2 cup
Vanilla essence: 1 tsp

For the glaze:

butter: 1/2 cup 
orange juice: 1/4 cup 
powdered sugar: 1 cup 
orange zest: 1 tsp + 1 tsp

Method:


Preheat the oven to 350 degree F.

Grease the Bundt pan thoroughly and keep ready.

Seive together flour, baking soda, baking powder, sugar and salt and keep aside. You could also just whisk it using a whisk. Whisk thoroughly.

Mix the instant coffee and cocoa powder in hot water and keep aside.

In a bowl, using an electric mixer, beat the eggs, with the oil, milk and vanilla essence. 

Add the wet ingredients to the dry ingredients. Mix well. Do not overmix!

Divide the batter into two equal portions. 

To the first half add the water, coffee and cocoa mixture and mix well. Again, do not overmix! If the batter is too thick, add a tbsp of milk.

To the other bowl,  add the orange juice, orange zest and raisins. Mix gently but thoroughly. Do not over mix!

Now pour the batter into the Bundt  pan little at a time alternating between the chocolate and the orange flavored ones. Start and end with the chocolate batter.

Tap the Bundt pan against the kitchen countertop to get rid of any air bubbles. 

Place it in the center rack of the oven and bake for 40-45 minutes it until a skewer comes out clean.

My oven took 40 minutes. Keep checking after 35 minutes and adjust the time accordingly.

When done, take the pan out and let it cool down for atleast 30 minutes before taking it out of the pan and place it on the wire-rack.

Let it cool completely before decorating it.

While the cake is cooling, prepare the glaze.




For the glaze: 

Add the butter to a pan. Once it is melted, add the orange juice, sugar and bring it to a boil. Reduce the flame and simmer for 5 mins stirring continuously. Turn off the flame. Stir in the zest.

Glazing the cake: 

Once the cake is completely cooled, place it on the serving plate/tray. Spoon the glaze on top of the cake. Sprinkle the remaining zest on top. The glaze thickens once it cools down. 

Enjoy! 

Cooking made easy:


You could make this cake spiked by adding orange liqueur. To do this, add 1/2 cup Curacao or Triple Sec to the glaze with the orange zest once the flame is turned off.

Tip for healthy living:


Since Bundt cakes are not layered with frosting or iced, they are a great alternative to iced cakes thereby reducing the sugar intake. 


Food for thought:


Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Theodore Roosevelt 


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Parenting, parties and the Christmas holidays: If you have a 14 or 15-year-old, hold on tight - it could be a bumpy ride!

If you speak to teachers, particularly Year Co-ordinators who follow a cohort of students through high school, they will often tell you that they see the biggest change occur in the young people when they return to school after the Christmas holiday period between Years 9 and 10. Sometimes it can be a year earlier or even a year later, but it nearly always seems to occur when the students have returned from that extended summer break. Now you could argue that this is simply due to the length of time the students are away from school but in my experience this behavioural change often appears to be due to a change in parenting that occurs over those summer months, particularly in regards to those young people aged around 14 and 15.

The summer break (both before and after the Christmas and New Year holidays) is a time when there are usually lots of parties or gatherings and parents are bombarded by requests to attend this or that event. It's the most social time of the year, for both teens and their parents, and everyone wants to let their hair down just a little. The holidays are also long - very long! Many teens have almost 8 weeks away from school, that's a time where you have to maintain your daily schedule (particularly difficult if both parents are working), keep your family running as usual and also ensure your kids are occupied and safe. They're going to want to catch up with friends, go to the movies, travel to the beach or whatever and, at the same time, you have to keep doing what you would usually do if they weren't on a break and maintain a healthy level of parental monitoring and control ... It's not surprising that at this time of the year some parents find this all just a little bit too difficult and let their guard down, letting some things 'slip through to the keeper'. Things that you wouldn't normally allow to happen are permitted and then you've set a precedent and it all goes downhill from there!

I've written about the unique issues that I believe parents of Year 9s face many times. Those aged 14-15 years are going through that really interesting time called 'middle adolescence' and they are going to push as many boundaries and rules as they can to try to get want they want. They're also going to be relentless in their efforts - begging and pleading, threatening, slamming doors, telling you that you're a bad parent, "you're the only one that does that!" and that they hate you - and in normal circumstances you're often able to stand your ground, but it would appear that the summer break is where this age group can often find the crack in their parents' resolve!

A great example of this is how many 14-15 year-olds manage to get permission from their parents to travel into the city they live and watch the NYE fireworks! Groups of unbelievably young people making their way into the city, usually by public transport, and then wandering the streets (often drinking alcohol) - truly bizarre! What is a parent thinking? I don't know if any of these people have actually been into a city on NYE but it's certainly not the place for a group of 14 and 15-year-olds to travel unsupervised. Last year I had a mother contact me to ask me what I thought about her 15-year-old daughter's request to travel into Perth to watch the fireworks there - she didn't want her to go but she seemed to be the only parent who had a problem with it and was she simply being overprotective, as one of the other mothers had suggested? All I did when she called me was to ask her whether she felt comfortable with her daughter taking part in such an activity and if she didn't, why not? She was adamant that she didn't and essentially her reason was 'safety' - she didn't feel that it was a 'safe' thing for someone of her daughter's age to do. I then asked her why then was she was even considering it? The answer was simple - her daughter would not let up - the begging and pleading and the constant barrage of "you're the only one" was just too much. As she said to me - "At least when she's at school I have some relief during the day, when she's on holidays I can't get away from it!"

As I've said many times before the key to good parenting is not all about saying 'no', it's more about looking for those opportunities where you can say 'yes' and allow them to do something. 'No' remains one of the most important words you will ever say to your teen (most probably the fourth most important, just behind the three little words "I love you") but if you overuse it or don't use it properly, you're going to have great conflict and your relationship with your child will suffer. Of course you have to have rules and boundaries and appropriate consequences if your child breaks those rules but you can't simply lock them up in their room and wrap them up in cotton wool in an effort to keep them as safe as possible. They're going to have to do things you don't want them to do and then make mistakes and do the wrong thing, that's how they learn, that's how we learnt. You just don't want those mistakes to be potentially life threatening ... Am I for one second suggesting that you should even consider allowing a 14 or 15-year-old wander into the city to watch the NYE fireworks? Of course not, this is incredibly dangerous and to my mind this has the word 'no' all over it!

Without any doubt your teen is going to 'try it on' over the summer break, particularly that group who are going through that wonderful stage of 'middle adolescence' (parents of Year 9s, I'm sure you know exactly what I mean!). They're getting older and they're going to want more independence and if there's ever a time you're going to let them get away with just a little more than in the past it's during the school holidays - the long school holidays! You'll be tired and they'll be relentless in their efforts to get what they want. It's a very strong parent who is able to maintain their resolve throughout this time - most give in, at least a little! Remember, look for opportunities over the summer break to say 'yes' - identify activities or events that you may now feel a little more comfortable with, particularly things that they may have previously requested that you said 'no' to in the past, e.g., going to the movies with friends by themselves, catching a train to the beach, etc. Make sure you still have your rules and boundaries around these and maintain your standards but 'allowing' them to do new, more adult things will help keep your relationship just a little more healthy when you have to say 'no' to the big ones which are bound to raise their ugly head!

Most importantly, remember that once you have let your guard down and allowed them to do something, it is extremely hard to go back. At 14 or 15 they may think they're now adults but they have very little, if any, life experience and when put into adult situations and things go wrong they simply have no idea what to do. The vast majority of the deaths I have been involved with in schools over the years have involved this age group - young people who did not have any clue how to respond when things didn't go as planned. Of course you've got to let them grow up and have experiences that are potentially risky, but at 14 and 15 (and even 16 in most cases), these should be controlled as much as possible. If you're going to 'give in' a little over the break (and no-one can blame you - it's a long time to maintain your resolve), choose carefully - you don't want to paint yourself into a corner for the year and years ahead ...

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Wednesday, December 13, 2017

The Consanguinamorous and Allies Have a Place to Talk

If you're consanguinamorous or have ever been in a consanguinamorous relationship, are experiencing Genetic Attraction or Genetic Sexual Attraction, you're a friend or family member of someone who is, or you're an ally in general, there is a good forum for you called Kindred Spirits. It's free, so come check it out, sign up with a username, and follow the instructions. The forum is based in France, which has no laws against consenting adults being consanguinamorous, but the forum is in English.

Please note:
  • Kindred Spirits is for people considering consanguinamory or who have been involved in consanguinamory, or experiencing Genetic Attraction or Genetic Sexual Attraction, and allies, and supportive or curious friends and family.
  • It is NOT for anyone under the age of 18.
  • The forum is porn-free. There are plenty of other places for that.
  • The forum is not for fetishists or anyone else looking for fap material. There are plenty of other places for that.
  • The forum is not a place for haters to express their bigotry, prejudice, and ignorance. You're doing that in many other places.
  • The forum is not for any adult who engages in, or wants to advocate, abusing minors or abusing anyone.


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Monday, December 11, 2017

Answering Arguments Against Polyamory


People who insist monogamy is the only acceptable relationship model, or that polyamorists should not have the same rights for their relationships as monogamists, almost always cite a few often-repeated reasons as to why. If you're polyamorous, you’ve probably heard most of these reasons, whether from coworkers, family, or complete strangers. Although I’m going to focus on polyamorous relationships, most of these are also applicable to open relationships, swinging, swapping, nonmonogamous sex, and ethical nonmonogamy in general whether the people involved identify as polyamorous or not.

Just about any objection people have to polyamory or other forms of ethical nonmonogamy fit into these common arguments, perhaps with different wording. Just so that you know, when I use the term “polygamy” I am referring to a subset of polyamory that involves marriage (whether by law, ceremony, or declaration of those involved), involving three or more spouses, whatever the structure of the relationship or the genders involved, as long as all involved are consenting adults.

1. “It is disgusting.” Also known as the “ick” or “eww” factor, this explains why the person using the argumentwould not want to have a polyamorous relationship, but their own personal disgust is not a justification for preventing other people from having a polyamorous relationship. Some people are disgusted by the idea of heterosexual sex, or their own parents having sex, but obviously this is not a justification to ban those things. Obviously, the consenting adults who want a polyamorous relationship aren’t disgusted by it. An effective response to this is “Don’t want a polyamorous relationship? Don’t have one.”


2. “Not a lot of people want to do it”or “I don’t want to do it.” This is not a justification for continuing discrimination. We don’t deny minorities rights based on majority vote. Also, people would be surprised to know just how many people around them are in, or want to be in, or have been in, a polyamorous relationship or one that is forbidden by law or discriminated against, despite being between consenting adults. This is also one of those where an anti-polyamory person should be reassured that they don’t have to have a polyamorous relationship.

3. “It goes against tradition.” This should draw something along the lines, of “So did the abolition of slavery and allowing women to vote.” In reality, polyamory is nothing new. Anyone who has a cursory understanding of history or anthropology knows this. This argument may be phrased as something like “It’s not the way things are supposed to be” or even “It’s against the law” or “It is unsupported by the law.” Don’t let someone get away with that. It is precisely the matter in dispute: the law should not discriminate against polyamory.

4. “My religion is against it.” To this I again say, “If you don’t want a polygamous marriage or a polyamorous relationship, then don’t have one.” But we should all have the freedoms of religion and association, as I am supposed to have under the US Constitution.

5. “It's not natural." Many people have been embarrassed by making this argument, because it is so easy to refute by a cursory survey of sexual, mating, and partnering habits of various animals. But invariably, the person saying that a relationship should not be allowed because they think it is unnatural constantly enjoys things that aren’t natural, from their smart phones to their toiletries to their food to their clothing to their transportation to their housing… on and on it goes.

6. “Your relationship will hurt children.” This is usually said by people who themselves hurt children by denying rights to the parents of those children and telling the children that their parents are wrong for loving each other, perpetuating a stigma about the children and their families. A good response is “Don’t want children of these relationships to be hurt? Then stop hurting their families.”

Adults having a relationship with each other, adults reproducing together, and adults raising children together are three different things. Adults can do any one of those without doing the other two, or any two of those without doing the third. Or, to put it another way, we’re talking about sex, relationships, and marriage, not about reproduction or adoption or parenting.

We don’t deny people their right to be together because they can’t or won’t reproduce. We don’t deny people their right to be together because they won’t be good candidates for adoption. We don’t test people on their parenting skills before we allow them to marry, but if we did, a lot of the prejudiced people who want to deny rights to others would fail, while many people who are still fighting for their relationship rights would pass with flying colors.

So this reason to oppose equality already fails. But for the sake of argument let’s assume there will be children. A polyamorous relationship generally means a child is going to have more supervision and additional role models in a cooperative environment. How is that bad, especially in comparison to “monogamous” parents who had a contentious divorce and now have brought stepparents into the situation?

It is legal to reproduce and raise children alone, or with others in the home who aren't monogamous spouses. In many places, a woman can live with both fathers of her children, but can't legally marry both even though that is what everyone wants. Why deny polyamorous people protections, including marriage?

Anti-equality people may try to claim that a study shows children from polygynousfamilies have "considerably lower" survival rates, but the data is from nineteenth century frontier areas of the US and places in Africa where diseases and genocide are significant problems. The study doesn’t address polyandry, same-gender polygamy, polygamy consisting or multiple men and women, and other forms of polyamory. The other claim is that adolescent boys are driven from polygynous (again, just polygynous and not any other form of polyamory) societies, but again, they are citing communities with a monolithic patriarchal religious culture that only allow a specific form of polygyny. It’s akin to banning sports because Lance Armstrong cheated.

There are children being raised right now by people who want to get married, and yet are denied their right to marry.

7. “What’s next?” “Where do we draw the line?” What's wrong with letting consenting adults have the freedom to love each other as they want and agree? Who has a problem with that? Rather than coming up with convoluted schemes for which groups of people will get which rights, why not support the rights of all adults?
8. “Polyamorous relationships are not the same thing as same-gender marriage.” So what? We’re talking about consenting adults who want to be together, and there’s no good reason to stop them. Some same-gender relationships and marriages are polyamorous. A man should not only be able to marry another man, but two or more other men.

Strictly speaking, whether a marriage is same-gender or heterosexual isa different category than whether it is monogamous or polygamous. Some heterosexual marriages are monogamous, some are polygamous. Some same-gender marriages are monogamous, some are polygamous. Bisexuals may be in monogamous marriages or polygamous marriages. That monogamous/polygamous is a different category from heterosexual/same-gender is not a justification to deny the freedom to marry to consenting adults, or deny them marriage equality. Relationship rights belong to all adults.

It should be noted that when there is a polyamorous relationship, whether a "V" or a triad or more, chances are that at least two of the people involved are the same gender, even if they are no more than metamours to each other.

Something does not have to be immutable or inborn, like sexual orientation, to be legal. However, there are people who are obviously unable to be monogamous, to the point of being willing to suffer loss of job, loss of reputation, loss of wealth, and figurative and literal loss of life, and they should not promise monogamy nor be pressured to pretend to be monogamous. Some people simply are polyamorous.

That a polygamous marriage are not the same thing as same-gender marriage does not explain why there are still laws against them or a lack of relationship protections in the law.
9. “They’re abusive.” Polyamorous relationships are notinherently abusive. It is the abusive relationships in general that are more likely to make news, or come to the attention of therapists or law enforcement. There are many people in polyamorous relationships that are lasting, happy, healthy relationships.

Abusive people are the cause of abuse, not a relationship or marriage. There are many monogamous relationships and marriages in which someone is abused. We have several examples showing that outlawing or discriminating against consensual behavior correlates to an increase in problems as people try to avoid law enforcement or other authorities, or neighborhood disapproval. Recognizing that adults should be free to have their relationships will most certainly reduce abuse, as abuse victims can go to the authorities with much less fear. So the solution isn’t the status quo, it is in bringing the relationships out of the shadows, allowing them to be protected and made official, and prosecuting abusers. Abuse victims will be much more forthcoming.

10. “This oppresses women.” This may also be posited as “No sane woman would want this.” Well, yes, there are sane, intelligent, confident women who do want and enjoy polyamorous relationships, and some specifically enjoy polygynous ones, just as there are men and women who enjoy polyandrous relationships. Gender equality and the right to be unmarried or to divorce are necessary components of full marriage equality. Anti-equality people often point to polygyny in certain cultures, past and present, where women do not have equal rights. However, this is not proof that polygyny, much less the larger scope of polygamy or polyamory, oppresses women. Women would be oppressed in those cultures with or without polygyny. If a woman wants to marry a man who has other wives rather than another man who is an unmarried man, and the other wives agree, why deny her that choice? If a woman wants to marry two men, or a man and a woman, or two women, she should have that right, too.

In most places, the law does not prevent a man from having relationships with, and children with, multiple women, but he can't legally marry all of them even if they all agree. The law does not prevent a woman from having relationships with, and children with, multiple men, but she can't legally marry all of them even if they all agree. Three people can have a loving, lasting triad, living together for years and years, but can't legally marry. What kind of sense is that?

Protections against gender discrimination, domestic violence, and child abuse should be the focus, not preventing consenting adults from being together or marrying.
11. “Polyamory spreads sexually transmitted infections.” Unprotected sex with someone who is infected is how such infections may be transmitted. Twenty people could have a polyamorous relationship for fifty years and if none of them brings an infection into the mix and they only have sex with each other, none of them will get a sexually transmitted infection.

We do not deny people their freedom to marry or other relationship rights based on which diseases they have. Polyamorous peopletend to be more careful about prevention, safer sex, and actually talking about the issues involved.

 12. “It will be a legal and paperwork nightmare as our system is set up for couples.” That’s what bigots have said about any civil rights laws. Of course it is easier for those who already have what they want to keep things as they are. But what about all of the people who are denied their rights?

Adopting the polygamous freedom to marry under full marriage equality will take much less adjustment than adopting many other laws necessary to for equal protection and civil rights. Contract and business law already provides adaptable examples of how law can accommodate configurations involving three or more people, including when someone joins an existing relationship or leaves a relationship.

13. “What about child custody and child support?” This is an especially flimsy objection to the polygamous freedom to marry. As we have noted before, adult relationships don't always involve raising children. Even so, nonmonogamous relationships between adults who are parents have always existed, and in most places, it isn't criminal to be nonmonogamous. So this issue is already being handled. Notice we could ask the same question about children from one night stands, donated sperm, surrogate mothers, affairs, brief flings, or supposedly monogamous relationships and marriages that end. What about children born to a woman whose husband wasn’t the man who impregnated her? All of these situations are entirely legal in most places. A mediator, arbitrator, or court decides custody and child support disputes that aren’t resolved amicably. That would still be the case if polyamorous relationships had legal protections, including marriage.

14. “This will cause inheritance disputes.” This can’t be a reason for the continued denial of the polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry. Again, if we're talking about children, not all polyamorous marriages will have children. But even with today’s restriction of monogamy-only for marriage, we see inheritance disputes all of the time. Widows and widowers who were married only once get in fights with their own children, who may fight with each other. Then, in some cases, there are children born outside of that marriage. There’s divorce and remarriage with or without stepchildren or making more children, there are people who were never married who have kids, there are childless people whose inheritances are disputed, "monogamous" and polyamorous people who had children with multiple people without having been married to any those partners, on and on it goes. If anything, legalizing polygamy would make it easier to sort out inheritance. There can be default rules in the law, and people can come up with their own documented, legal agreements.

15. “What about insurance/employment benefits?” There are many simple ways to deal with this. It is dealt with when an employee has more kids than the next, isn't it? This is something the law and/or employers and unions can figure out.

16. “Some men will be left out as polygyny increases.” This is based on the assumption that in a culture with gender equality, polygyny would still be more plentiful than polyandry. Anti-equality people, based on this assumption, insist that this will result in unmarried men devolving into criminals.

The mistake here is assuming that the second, third, etc. wives in a polygynous marriage would have wanted one of those unmarried men rather than legally sharing the man they did marry, and that the unmarried men would in turn want to marry them. Some of those men may want to marry men, or not marry at all. Why not allow people to marry the person or people of their choice?Why try to force people to settle? Also, the system is not closed. There are billions of people in the world and more and more people are reaching the age and status of eligibility every second.

There was a study attempting to link polygyny to criminal behavior in unmarried/unpartnered men based in part on nineteenth century frontier America. Things have changed a little since then. And guess what? Married men commit crime, too. Most of the men in prison have been married, were married or had at least one girlfriend at the time they were convicted.

Maybe men in the hypothetical polygynous community who don’t get married are violent people. Is it better that they have a wife to beat instead of committing crimes on the street? I don’t want to be the one who tells a woman she can’t marry the man/men or woman/women she wants; rather, she has to marry a less desirable man so that he can take his aggression out on her.

The warnings that polyamorous or polygamous freedom to marry will result in an increase of violent gangs of unmarried men committing crimes falls flat when one considers the overwhelming data revealing both that 1) Men in the US, where I live, are getting married for the first time later than ever, and 2) Crime rates in the US have decreased.

17. “You can only love one person at a time.” What a sad world this would be if that statement as true for everyone! Many people throughout history have proven they can love more than one person at a time. If the person objecting to the polyamorous relationship feels they can’t love more than one person a time, that is their own limitation and it doesn’t necessarily apply to anyone else. Any parent who has more than one child knows they can love more than one person in much the same way at the same time.
18. "You'll change when you find the right person. Then you'll settle down and be monogamous." My mother thinks I'm just going through a phase. I point out to her that I'm am quite settled down in the sense that I have a very stable life, I'm mostly happy with the way it is, and I have no intention of making major changes to my life. I work, I pay my bills, I love and am loved, I have great friendships, I try to do right and be kind, and I try to be a good neighbor and citizen. There are people much older than me who are "settled down" and are polyamorous. Many of them have found the right person. And another right person, or two. I try to explain it to my mother this way: she has more than one close friend who has been with her through the good times and the bad. Does that mean she hasn't found the "right person" to be her friend? Certainly not! As for my father, he leaves it at "Your love life is not mine. You're the one who has to live with what you do and who you bring into your life." I'm fortunate. It is terrible that some parents literally shun their children for being poly.

19. “I’m polyamorous, and I don’t want to get legally married.” There are some polyamorists who do not want to get legally married, and various reasons are cited. There are also polyamorists, like others, who say marriage shouldn’t be a matter of law at all. To this I say “As long as marriage or some form of personal union is legally sanctioned, it should not be denied to polyamorists who want such a union.”


There’s no reason to deny polyamorists the same protections given to monogamists. Prejudiced discrimination should be eliminated so that adults are not discouraged from having the relationships in which they best function; the relationships they want and mutually build. The more that polyamorists and their allies are able and willing to answer questions and concerns from others, the faster this will happen.


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Sunday, December 10, 2017

Consanguinamorous in Orientation

As we observe and research people and their experiences with consanguinamory, it is becoming clear that some people, more than others, are oriented towards consanguinamorous relationships. For more about this, see Jane's latest great essay.


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Saturday, December 9, 2017

Living Consanguinamorously - What To Tell The Children


A question many people in consanguinamorous relationships have is
if, what, when, and how to tell their children about their relationship.


There is no one right answer because it depends on many different factors.

It will be great when we get to a point where it doesn’t even have to be a question, but since most consanguineous lovers are still living in places where such relationships face severe discrimination, often including imprisonment, it is a question some people have.

Most people in consanguinamorous relationships have children, whether they have those children together or by some other relationship or through adoption or third party reproduction, because most people in general have children, so this is an issue faced by many people.

Let’s consider some of the factors involved.


1) Do you live where such relationships are criminalized? It can be tough on a child to keep a secret. It is often best if they wouldn’t possibly reveal anything incriminating, and if that can be prevented from them knowing something incriminating in the first place, great!

2) Other than the law, how are things where you live? Even if you live somewhere that your love isn’t criminalized, you and your loved ones can still be subjected to hateful discrimination and attacks.

3) What kind of relationship do you have? If your consanguinamory is limited to what amounts to a family-with-benefits situation, that’s easier to hide from the children and a lot of other people as well. But if if you’re living as spouses, and your children think of you and your lover(s) as spouses to each other, and the children are likely to talk about you to others as though you’re spouses, that’s another matter.

4) How are you presenting your relationship, if at all? Do people know of your relation? A mother and the adult son she raised who have a “benefits” situation can easily keep that closeted. But if people know you are lovers but don’t know of your genetic relation, are they likely to find out?

5) Who knows what, and what is their attitude about it? If you have hostile, blabbermouth relatives who know all about it, and you can’t keep them from contacting your children, that’s a far different situation than, say, your approving parents knowing and being able to keep it a secret.

6) Are any of the children your joint biological children, and if not, were they around and older when you and your lover(s) got involved? A DNA test on a child conceived by you and a consanguineous partner can reveal your relation.

7) Are you or your partner a parental figure to any of these children? If a woman has a child by her genetic brother, uncle, father, or son and he’s thousands of miles away or he lives on the other side of town with his other children and/or stepchildren, that’s going to make things different than if you’re living together and he’s living as their father or a father figure. Just as someone being a parent or a parental figure doesn’t necessarily mean they are a lover to the child’s other parent, being a lover to the child’s parent doesn’t necessarily mean they will be acting as a parent or parental figure.

In general, children should be told things like this only on a need-to-know basis. If it won’t benefit them, they don’t need to know.

Will it benefit a child who is, say 11, to know that her parents are siblings or father and daughter? Usually it won’t.

As they get older, what they need to know might expand.

What concerns children above everything else is their needs being met. If they are being loved, nurtured, protected, housed, fed, clothed, talked with and listened to, if they are allowed to play and learn, and are provided some stability and consistency in their life, they will thrive. If they have a childhood like that, it really won’t matter to them, as they are growing up, what the genetic relation is of the adults raising them. Just about any child out there would rather have kind parents who protect them and are siblings than unrelated parents who are neglectful.

One of the reasons we fight for rights and equality is that it is harder to provide children with what they need when the parents are being discriminated against simply for loving each other.

Here are some of the possible problems and what people think might be problems people think about when it comes to telling or NOT telling:

1) If the neighbors or anyone else find out and aren’t supportive, it’s one more thing for which they might bully your children.

2) Children may be traumatized if their parents are arrested and prosecuted, and will be if they are ripped away from their parents. The good news is that, although people do continue to be prosecuted on many places, the overwhelming majority of consanguinamorous relationships never involve being arrested for being consanguinamorous. So would it be good for a child to worry about the possibility of something that, odds are, won’t happen?

3) A child may find out from someone or something else and confront their parent(s) with “Why didn’t you tell me?” If that ever happens, though, the parent should be honest: “Because it was of no benefit for you to know, but there were potential downsides to you knowing. What matters is that I/we love you and have taken care of you.”

4) Some people fear their child will reject them/their lover(s) or otherwise react negatively. Maybe you were rejected by your parents or someone else due to your love, or something else about you, such as your orientation or gender identity, and you fear that your child will likewise reject you. But...

This last one isn’t likely to happen if you’re good parents to them, and especially if part of that good parenting is that you raise them with healthy attitudes about sexuality and relationships. One of the reasons people (maybe even your own parents) bash consanguinamorous people is simply because they were taught to. Teach your child to be thoughtful and respectful and understanding. The earlier you start (age-appropriate, of course) the better. If you’ve got a 13-year-old and you just found the half sibling you never knew you had and have fallen madly in love, it’s probably not going to be easy if the 13-year-old has been raised with the attitude that consanguinamory is wrong (as some people who experience GSA used to feel!) It matters how your children are raised. You had no control over how strangers or your parents or your siblings (usually) were raised, but you have much to do with teaching your children and setting good examples for them.
So, if you raise them to embrace human diversity rather than fear it, to be loving and kind and accepting and sex-positive, chances are, things between you and them will be good. If you’re loving towards them, it usually isn’t going to matter much at all to them if they do find out that you and your partner(s) share genes. If anything, if they hear it is wrong from someone else they will likely be baffled that someone would say it is wrong. (Although, even the best parents can raise a child who goes down the wrong path and grows up to be an awful person.)


There are certain situations in which it might be helpful for the children to know:

1) They are getting involved with each other, whether it is youthful experimentation or a budding romance. Especially if they’ve internalized some of the prejudiced bigotry against consanguinamory, they might need to be assured that it is OK by their parents coming out to them as an example.

2) Especially if they are older and looking for a permanent or long-term partner (or have one or more) and are frustrated because they perceive their relationship(s) don’t measure up to the connection they see their parents have, it could be helpful to reveal to them that the reason your relationship is different is because it is one of double-love.

3) If the now-adult children express a romantic and/or sexual interest in one or more of you. Whether that bond will be added or not, it can be helpful for them to know the full reality of the existing or prior relationship(s).

4) They are well into adulthood and you think you might need their help in protecting you.


How To Tell Them

If you decide that your child should know, whether you have the luxury of tell them yourself or you have to clear up something they found out from someone or something else, it should be age-appropriate. You know your child better than anyone else does, so think about what generally concerns them and how they process new information. What kind of relationship do they have with you and your lover(s)?

Dependent children want to know "What does this mean for me?" They want to know how it has an impact on them. Usually, it won't actually change anything.

Point out to them that what matters most is that you and your lover(s) have been there, and will continue to be there, for them. What matters is how you've been treating each other and them.

Do not feel obligated to abandon your privacy. You don't need to answer every question they ask in extensive detail. Likewise, don't volunteer anything unnecessarily that would make your child uncomfortable (after all, many children spend at least some of their life NOT wanting to hear/see anything relating to their parents' sex life.)

You can provide them with general information about consanguinamory.

This page may also help, depending on how old they are.

Remind them that everyone has their own path and there is diversity in relationships; what is best for some is different than what is best for others. This is where you've found love and it really isn't anyone else's business to be concerned with.

And yes, do discuss, as appropriate, that there's still ignorance and prejudice against some love and that you've had to take certain steps to protect yourself and them.

Let them know they can keep coming to you with questions or concerns.

If you think it would help them for them to have something to do with this information, maybe they can support equality?


Some Odds and Ends

Unable to think of a single good argument against such relationships, haters might ask something like. “So are you their father or their uncle?” (or whatever the situation is.) The biological fact is, you’re both. However, people are generally identified by their closer relation. So if you’re socializing them as their father, then you are father, dad, or whatever. First cousin marriages have been common and legal throughout history and remain so in many places. To the biological children of such marriages, dad is also their first cousin, once removed, as is their mom (and, likewise, the children are first cousins, once removed to their parents.) But nobody talks like that. It is simply “This is my daughter” or “This is my father.”

[Please note we are generally talking about consensual (to be redundant) relationships and births, not assault. If your child was conceived in incestuous assault, it usually isn't a good to tell them that their conception was an assault. You should protect that child from the abuser if the abuser is still around, but the child doesn’t need to know the truth about their conception.]


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